myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Malaysia bans Israel from youth windsurf ISAF(WS) event
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Riptide



Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.xssailing.com/uncategorized/malaysia-malaise/When we first reported that Israel’s Youth Worlds Windsurfing team was essentially banned from the Malaysia ISAF Youth Worlds, we didn’t realize this problem was not a new one! After publishing, a number of whistleblowers reached us to tell us that, despite ISAF’s knowledge of highly discriminatory and antisemitic practices from various Muslim nations over the past couple of years, these countries were still permitted to host Olympic and other international qualifiers. We have learned, for instance, that Israeli sailors were denied visas to the ISAF Sailing World Cup finals in both 2014 and just a couple of months ago in 2015, and we’re talking about a Beijing Bronze Medalist being banned from one of ISAF’s signature events – because of nationality and religion. Similarly, the RS:X Worlds in Oman earlier this year only allowed an Israeli windsurfer in after agreeing to sail without her national flag. Thanks in part to thousands of SA’ers and to the viral controversy ignited when Malaysian student Jonathan Ong Ujang dared post “I Love Israel” in response to allegedly antisemitic and anti-Israel actions from organisers of the ISAF Youth Worlds, ISAF a/k/a World Sailing is going to be forced to take some action.

We certainly hope they do, because we are DISGUSTED, and not just with the actions of these nations, which violate every tenet of international sport. How about our sport’s governing body? You know, that limited liability company that just renamed itself “WORLD SAILING”? Shouldn’t they be enforcing standards of equality and nondiscrimination during their own events, and doing it not because Sailing Anarchy humiliates them into it, but because it’s the right thing to do?

World Sailing president Carlo Croce sent us over a statement a few minutes ago. Let’s break it down:

“As with all diplomatic issues this is quite a delicate matter. World Sailing is aware of the current commentary in the public arena, and have reason to believe that some of the comments may not be accurate or possibly based on misunderstandings.”

This is a great example of what we call smarm, a type of writing that dismisses without dismissing, that questions without risking, and that criticizes without strength. It’s a perfect example of the kind of flawed leadership we’ve seen from ISAF for more than a decade. By saying it’s “delicate’, Croce is saying that ISAF is too weak to do anything about the situation. And by calling into question ‘some of the comments’, Croce avoids calling the the Israeli Sailing Federation liars, but that’s basically what he’s saying. We have a call in to the Israelis, but we find it hard to believe that this insidious discrimination as practiced by Abu Dhabi, Oman, and now Malaysia, is ‘not accurate’. Hopefully ISAF doesn’t accept the usual bullshit excuses from diplomatic types.

“World Sailing is committed to ensuring participation in our sport by competitors from all nations, and is taking this issue seriously.”

If you’re taking it so seriously, where’s the outrage about the Israelis forced to sail in an Oman-based ISAF World Championship in October without their flags? We didn’t hear about it until now, but we don’t have an army of people ‘committed to ensure participation by competitors from all nations’. Be honest, for a change: You’re only doing something about it now because you were caught.

“A member of the World Sailing Executive is on route to Malaysia to investigate this issue and is seeking clarification from the Malaysian Organising Authority.”

Oh, really? You couldn’t get clarification from them on the phone and tell them that their event was decertified? We bet you could.

“World Sailing expects the organising authority of its events to allow sailors from all nations to compete on an equal basis. This expectation is made clear in the bid process and is set out in the contractual documentation governing our events.”

IS that contractual documentation as useful as the IOC deal with Rio De Janeiro on wastewater treatment? ‘Cause we’ve seen how much power you have after this ‘bid process’ is over.

World Sailing is not in a position to comment on this further until our investigation is complete.

Of course not. Why would you comment plainly and honestly when you can wait to issue a long report about it?

ENOUGH, ISAF! Just stop it. You have such an easy out here even if you have testicles the size of peas. You already have the language in most of your agreements, but here, we’ll make it easy for you:

SAMPLE STATEMENT: World Sailing is committed to ensuring equal treatment of every sailor competing in every ISAF -sanctioned event or any sailing event using the Racing Rules of Sailing. We will hold organizers and NGB staff responsible for any discrimination against any participant on the basis of race, gender, ethnic origin, nationality, religion, philosophical or political opinion, marital status or other grounds. Incidents of discrimination or unequal treatment like that perpetuated against Israeli sailors by Abu Dhabi, Oman, and most recently, Malaysia, will be aggressively investigated, and violations of ISAF’s Equality Policy will result in immediate decertification of the offending country’s National Governing Body for sailing. Olympic status will be suspended for all competitors of that country, with a report of decertification to be forwarded to IOC and media. Any nation found to be in violation will lose the right to host any ISAF-sanctioned or RRS-enabled events.

And by the way, if you’re Jewish or have Jewish friends, now’s the time to tell the America’s Cup to shove it up their asses about Oman.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update. That's good enough for me.

SEND.

CONTACT ISAF: GENERAL ENQUIRIES
Thank you for your enquiry. It has been forwarded to the ISAF Secretariat and will be dealt with shortly.


Yeah ... I bet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Riptide



Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/187283

wo Israeli windsurfers and their coach have effectively been denied their right to compete in the World Sailing Youth Championships, which are underway in Langkawi, Malaysia.

Israel is the defending champion in the Boys Windsurfer event, and a repeat of their 2014 success is clearly too big a dead rat for the Malaysians to swallow.

Malaysia is a long time supporter of Palestine, which they are perfectly entitled to be. But the requirements of World Sailing, the re-branded International Sailing Federation are equally clear – that all member nations in good standing are entitled to enter a team in the pinnacle event for Youth Sailing.

The Notice of Race for the regatta issued in early December 2014 has the International Sailing Federation and Malaysian Sailing Association named as joint event organisers.

Clause 3.5 of that Notice of Race states "A MNA (Member National Authority) in good standing with ISAF may enter one crew in all or any of the following events:"

The Notice then lists nine events that will be contested. These Events closely mirror the Olympic Sailing competition, for which this regatta is a major stepping stone.

Many Olympic Gold medalists champions have been winners at the ISAF Youth Worlds, including Sir Ben Ainslie, Sir Russell Coutts, Nathan Outteridge, Iain Jensen (see the full list here).

The ISAF/World Sailing Youth Worlds is a prestigious regatta, ranking just below the Olympic Regatta itself, and is similar in format.

From information obtained by Sail-World it is clear that the ISAF/World Sailing had been aware of the Israeli visa situation for three months at least and had been trying to resolve the impasse between the conflict with the Malaysian Sailing Association, the Malaysian Government and satisfy the requirements of the World Sailing Youth Championship which allowed open entry to all countries, including Israel.

The Israel Sailing Association made their entry for a coach and two sailors in the Boys and Girls Windsurfing event sailed on RS:X boards, the same as used in Olympic competition.

In mid-October, the request for entry was made by the Malaysian Sailing Association to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, a government body charged with the issuing of entry visas.

The request for the visa for the Israelis was rejected two weeks later, on November 5 by the Malaysian Government on security grounds. However, there was an indication that the Government would listen to open discussion. Most Governments deal with such conflicts by issuing short-term visas in situations that are the exception to Government policy.

A further meeting took place on November 30, but with the same outcome as the November 5 meeting – Visas were refused for the Israeli Youth Team on security grounds.

The matter was then escalated to the Malaysian Cabinet, by the Malaysian Sailing Association, but still an exception still would not be made.

Abhorrent deal

At a subsequent meeting with Government officials a tentative offer was made to the Israel Sailing Association subject to the following conditions:

The Israeli team had to compete on an anonymous basis.
The team had to compete as an ISAF team and not representing Israel.
They could only take indirect flights via Singapore to Langkawi (these were believed to have been booked, by the Israelis.)
The Israeli team were not permitted to display any names, flags, logos, theme, colors that would indicate that they were representing Israel and had to portray themselves as representing the ISAF/World Sailing.
The playing of the Israeli national anthem was also prohibited.
The team was prohibited from making any purchases except via a third party.
All outside communication (any form including mobile and digital) was also to be made only by a third party. All purchases and communication had to be approved by Malaysian security.
There was to be no media reference to the existence of the team in Malaysia. Obviously, this restriction would have precluded the Israel Sailing Association issuing media releases as to the teams results, as is done by all national authorities at a World Championship.
A breach of any of these conditions would usually result in Visas being immediately revoked, and the team exited/deported. The latter three conditions were almost outside the control of the team.

Israel is flagged as an ISAF team in the official program for the 2015 World Sailing Youth Championships - photo © Sail-World.com
Israel is flagged as an ISAF team in the official program for the 2015 World Sailing Youth Championships - photo © Sail-World.com
Political motive

The restrictions were claimed on the basis of security, due to negative public sentiment.

However that line was contradicted by Youth and Sports Minister Khairy Jamaluddin commenting after Opening Ceremony (see the full story here) who is reported as saying:

'Today we saw how all are happy and pleased with Malaysia's organisation of the tournament. Nothing was mentioned by the World Sailing representative to me on the issue because they know our policy,' he told reporters after officiating at the tournament tonight.

The Youth and Sports Minister was commenting on the decision barring Israel's Yoav Omer and Noy Drihan from entering Malaysia recently to participate in the regatta.

Khairy is also reported as saying the decision was not made by him but by the Malaysian Government's Cabinet in accordance with Malaysia's foreign policy under which the country does not have diplomatic relations with Israel.

Indeed, the stance now being taken by the Malaysian authorities appears to be one of celebration rather than contrition, pointing to this being a deliberate political act rather than an administrative omission.

While Israeli security were precluded from being sent with the team, it is not known whether this was even requested or intended. Most countries would prohibit the intrusion of external security services.

Security issues are generally for a team to determine, having regard for their own safety, and on that basis whether they wish to participate. In events such as the Volvo Ocean Race, precautions have been taken by organisers to reduce the risk of piracy and other security risks to competitors.

It is not clear whether the Israel Sailing Association accepted competition under these terms, which would have been completely abhorrent to any other country.

In any event Visas for the team to enter Malaysia to compete in the World Sailing Youth Championship had not been received by the Israel Sailing Association by December 24, and the team had no option but to withdraw – which achieved the Malaysian political objective.

The President of the Israel Sailing Association, Amir Gill had strong words for the event organisers – the Malaysian Sailing Association and World Sailing/ISAF.

"The demands made by the Malaysians are unacceptable, and as we did not get the Visas, we decided not to participate. We condemn the anti-Israeli conduct of the organising committee of the competition. We will not accept to be humiliated."

In 2011, an Israeli boxer, Ilya Grad, 24, made history when he became the first Israeli to enter Malaysia, after receiving special permission from the country's Muslim authorities, to participate in a national TV Reality Show on boxing.

Media reports at the time stated that he was detained for 25 hours until the Malaysian sports minister intervened.

Despite its political stance on Israel, Malaysia does conduct substantial and growing trade with Israel, mostly in the importation of Israeli manufactured computer chips that are incorporated in various technology products.

World Sailing Inquiry underway

Chris Atkins, a World Sailing Vice-President and member of the World Sailing Executive, has flown to Malaysia, and an inquiry into the matter is said to be underway.

Inquiries of this type usually provide a smokescreen for the involved parties to avoid questions on the matter until the Inquiry is concluded. When completed, the Inquiry Report is then usually declared to be confidential. There has been no comment from MAS or World Sailing as to whether the report will be publicly released in an unedited version.

Legal action has been threatened by Amir Gill, President of the Israel Sailing Association. Quite how this would be undertaken, remains to be seen - and all indications are that the Malaysian authorities believe they are immune from any action, legal or otherwise.

The correct course of action for the ISAF/World Sailing officials to have taken would have been to withdraw the hosting rights for the regatta and allocate these to another country, as has happened previously on rare occasions.

While the World Sailing Executive may claim to have been blindsided by the Malaysian immigration and political tactics, the nation's negative stance toward Israel is well known and easily discoverable within a few minutes on the internet.

On that basis either false undertakings were made by the Malaysian Sailing Association in bidding to stage the Youth World Championship. Or, World Sailing was aware of the likelihood that Visas would not be granted to Israeli competitors and should not have awarded the hosting of the regatta to Malaysia.

Further, it appears from the reaction of the World Sailing Executive, and the fact that correspondence and negotiations had been underway for several months by World Sailing officials, that the elected Executive was largely unaware of the political machinations that were underway. Otherwise, an Inquiry would not have been necessary, as the situation and facts of the matter would have already been known to the World Sailing Executive Committee.

Serious outcomes ahead?

An outcome of the Inquiry, if the Malaysian Sailing Association has made false undertakings, could be that the organisation will be suspended by World Sailing – which may have ramifications for Malaysia's participation in the 2016 Olympic Sailing Regatta.

Or, if World Sailing officials were aware of the situation and had not acted to ensure that all competing teams were allowed to participate on an equal basis, then there are serious management issues to be addressed within World Sailing.

Injudicious comments made by the Minister of Youth and Sport after the Youth Worlds Opening Ceremony confirmed that World Sailing was aware of the Malaysian political stance regarding the issuance of entry visas to Israeli sports team members. The report in malaysiakini.com says the world federation (ISAF/World Sailing) had been informed of the nation's stance about Israel's involvement in any world championship hosted by Malaysia.'

The World Youth Sailing Championships issue comes on the back of ongoing issues being faced by World Sailing over pollution at the 2016 Olympic sailing venue, and the parting of ways with its CEO just five months after his appointment.

The world sailing body also came down hard on a team and sailors at the last America's Cup for being economical with the truth over a measurement issue in a related series of regattas. In that instance a fine of USD250,000 was levied against the team, several sailors were the subject of further disciplinary, including one who received a five-year suspension from the ISAF's Disciplinary Committee (later reduced is severity by CAS to 18 months, or time served).

Quite how World Sailing handles a case of discrimination on political grounds against a Youth sailing team by either its own staff or a Member National Authority will be watched with keen interest by the world sailing community.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I oppose this completely so please bear with me while I give some background.
Attacking me won't help.
Nearly every world event faces these issues.
I know at least four top people in windsurfing who cannot compete in the US, like the Aloha Classic, because they cannot get visas.
If you cannot get a visa to enter the EU, you will not get a special pass to compete in sailing there. You must choose other events.
Countries often do not, or cannot, change their laws when we hold an event in their country.
For some reason rulers think their national policies are more important than a sailing race.
Changing their immigration laws could require an act of Congress in order to help out a single team of sailors in a single contest they barely notice.
They don't care who wins , by and large.
Did you know some Palistinians killed some Isrealis at the Olympics in Munich and generations of athletes were not allowed to compete?
Many of these kids were not even born when that happened ,but they were the ones not allowed to compete.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave it to Keycocker and the left to bring it to a new low. I'm waiting for mic to somehow drag the palestinian terrorists into this as well.
ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.
AND.... your point is not relevant, they will let the Israeli's into their country, not a visa issue or anything to do with it remotely.
For Israeli's no flags and no national anthem, that is the issue, GET IT?????
Don't try to change the issue and make stuff up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Riptide



Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ussailing.org/youthworldslettertosailors/

December 29, 2015

Dear U.S. Sailors,

This past week our sport was negatively affected by political actions taken by the Malaysian Sailing Association (MSA), a Member National Authority (MNA) of World Sailing (formerly ISAF). The net result was that the Israeli youth team had restrictions imposed upon it at the Youth Sailing World Championships that no other team had, creating an inferior condition for the Israeli competitors and preventing them from competing as equals on and off of the race course. The Israeli team elected not to compete because of the unequal conditions enforced upon them by the MSA.

We denounce these policies and actions of the MSA that are in direct contradiction to our bylaws and the International Olympic Committee Code of Ethics, which state: There shall be no discrimination between the participants on the basis of race, gender, ethnic origin, religion, philosophical or political opinion, marital status or other grounds.” It is the responsibility of World Sailing to ensure that these conditions are met at all sanctioned international competitions. World Sailing has allowed the regatta to start, without imposing conditions on the MSA, to our knowledge.

The Board of US Sailing provides the following as our opinion on the situation in Malaysia:

We have three concerns. The first is for our sport. US Sailing believes that sailors of all nations are entitled to equal opportunity to compete. This core value of our sport appears to have been violated by the conduct of the MSA, who are managing this event under the authority of World Sailing. Many people have contacted us asking “how can World Sailing allow this to happen?” The fact is that World Sailing may have been as surprised as we were as to the action taken by the MSA because they relied on their vetting process to expose these potential problems. World Sailing has recently (as of last month) changed venues because of concerns about a MNA’s ability to remain apolitical, which we fully supported at the time of the decision.

The problem is that many of the regatta venues were determined years ago, before current political agendas (and willingness to act on those agendas) of some MNAs were detectible (prior to the selection of the venue). World Sailing’s charter is to be inclusive and grow our sport, so they have tried very hard to offer significant regattas to MNAs in non-traditional areas. In the case of Malaysia, it obviously did not work.

Has World Sailing reacted appropriately, once the situation developed? Unfortunately, as of this writing, we do not have the answer for that one. The delegates to World Sailing from the U.S. are working diligently to make our position known, which is: World Sailing must enforce its constitutional charter upon the Malaysian Sailing Authority and all MNAs hosting regattas, and that World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns do not occur for every event on the World Sailing schedule (regattas, conferences, meetings, etc.).

The next Youth World Sailing Championship regatta will be in Oman, followed by Israel in 2017. There is no doubt that a repeat of this breakdown would point to a systemic failure at World Sailing.

Our second concern is for all athletes. US Sailing feels strongly that sports and politics should not mix, and that athletes should not be used for political gain. Therefore, we will not discourage any sailor on the US Sailing Youth World Championship Team from competing in the regatta. US Sailing Board members were victims of the 1980 Olympic boycott and their firsthand experience demonstrates that there is no place in sport for politics. Nothing changed in the world after the boycott of 1980, save more medals for the countries that attended, and none for the countries that did not. We must keep the politics on the front page of the paper and our competitions in the sports section.

Our third concern is for regattas going forward, specifically the ones that our athletes will participate in and those we host in the U.S. World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns will not occur for every scheduled event on the World Sailing schedule. Next month US Sailing will host Sailing World Cup Miami, and three World Championships this February in Clearwater. At both regatta venues US Sailing will ensure that athletes from all countries that qualify for the event compete on an even footing, in accordance with the IOC Code of Ethics, as stated above.

We ask that all of our US Sailing members and volunteers support the leadership of World Sailing and our U.S. delegates thereto. This is a very difficult time for all of them as they deal with MNAs who refuse to be bound by the ethical standards that the rest of the world accepts and lives by. Further, we ask that we have strong support in January and February, when we welcome all sailors and fans to watch the regattas in Miami and Clearwater. Please support our U.S. teams and join us in welcoming all of the international competitors who have traveled to sail in our waters.

From the US Sailing Board of Directors,


Bruce J. Burton

- See more at: http://www.ussailing.org/youthworldslettertosailors/#sthash.u5XCvErz.dpuf

President of US Sailing[/url]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Riptide



Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.sail-world.com/Israel-blocked-at-Youth-Worlds---a-normal-procedure--says-OC-Malaysia/141159

Kok Chi however warned that, ISAF could revoke the tournament’s title if the organisers breached the terms and conditions set by the federation.

“There is a possibility that the ISAF can withdraw the championship if the conditions are breached but I am not sure… we must refer to the conditions,” said Kok Chi, who has 23 years of experience in sports administration.

Recently, the IOC Executive Board revoked the Olympic Qualifying Status of the Asian Shooting Championships in Kuwait that was scheduled 1-12 November after the International Shooting Sports Federation’s Technical Delegate Yair Davidovich was denied a visa by the Kuwaiti Immigration Department.

Besides that, another reason for revoking was because the Kuwait Olympic Committee was suspended by the IOC due to government interference in the rules of the Olympic Charter, where the Committee is not entitled to participate in any activities related to the Olympic Movement.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riptide wrote:
Malaysia is a long time supporter of Palestine, which they are perfectly entitled to be.

The request for the visa for the Israelis was rejected two weeks later, on November 5 by the Malaysian Government on security grounds.

The matter was then escalated to the Malaysian Cabinet, by the Malaysian Sailing Association, but still an exception still would not be made.

[Caveats]:
The Israeli team had to compete on an anonymous basis.
The team had to compete as an ISAF team and not representing Israel.
(yada yada yada)

Indeed, the stance now being taken by the Malaysian authorities appears to be one of celebration ... the nation's negative stance toward Israel is well known and easily discoverable within a few minutes on the internet.

Thanks for adding that. It reinforces the "Trumpian" nature of the letter I sent these ratbags. I figure they'll get plenty of euphemistic, erudite, politically correct appeals, and just wanted to be sure they got at least one kick right in the gonads expressing what most unbigoted people of the free world think about people who CHOOSE to live in such an antisocial and demagogic turd world. I have nothing but disgust for anyone who knows even 5% of the facts and still supports the Palestinian point of view or disrespects the Israeli side.

That clearly includes the current President of the United States..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beagle buddy , do you recall suggesting we kill every Muslim man, woman, and child?
There is nothing lower than a mass murderer of children.
Your posts reflect the level that starts with genocide as a GOOD thing.
Be sure to suggest that in your letter in support of Isreal.
They have a special place in their hearts for guys who support genocide.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike BB some readers use facts.
I am not supporting Malaysia in any way, just filling in some facts about travel to events.
I have been refused entry into several countries during my life.
It happens often to Isrealis. I have helped a few Isrealis cross without visas into Belize.

This is entirely a visa problem.
The Isrealis were not allowed visas to enter Malaysia until 2011.
They now need two visa docs. The important one is from the Ministry of Home Affairs and the other cant be issued without the first.
The problem is that Ministry doesn't want to issue the required doc. because they think it will cause civil unrest and folks like Malaysian Christians and Jews will get killed.

They thought a media based compromise like no flags on TV , no media interviews would reduce the number of local crazies going ballistic in Malaysia against Malaysian Jews and others.


They think keeping down trouble is more important than political correctness.


I notice political correctness on conservative issues is very important to guys like BB.
Actually understanding what's going?
Not so much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group