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Ezzy Cheetah vs. Sailworks Retro 8.5
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 383
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:42 pm    Post subject: Ezzy Cheetah vs. Sailworks Retro 8.5 Reply with quote

I am looking to add an 8.5 sail for days when it is not gusting over 15 mph.

I have the Ezzy 6.5 Cheetah, and the Ezzy 7.5 Freeride, and am very happy with both sails. So right now I am leaning towards the Ezzy Cheetah.

The 6.5 takes to me gusts up to 25 mph, the 7.5 takes me to gusts up to 20 mph, so I am hoping the 8.5 becomes my go to sail when gusting under 15 mph. Many times I am going good on the 7.5, but would like to go a little faster, have more upwind ability, and perhaps a little earlier planing too.

However, I heard a lot of great things about the Retro, so if anyone has any advice, please let me know before I buy.

Thanks
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have several Ezzy's, Including a 2014 Cheetah 7'5 and an 06 Infinity 8.5 I've used the 8.5 a fair bit on my 2002 AHD GT 85 and my Equipe II. They are both great sails. In up and down winds I like the Infinity (twin cam) for a bit more stability. The one meter diff gives me about 1 knt earlier planing

I've used the 7.5 Cheetah on both boards also. With steadier winds I'd edge towards the Cheetah.

I don't have any issues with my Ezzy's but pretty sure Sailworks are just as good. Been waiting for one of my Ezzy's to blow out so I can try one but that hasn't happened yet.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2255
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Ezzy Cheetah vs. Sailworks Retro 8.5 Reply with quote

Hey Bryan,

I think that you should probably stick with the brand you have,
but, I also think Retros are tough to beat from 6.5 to 9.5.
They are just more tunable than anything I've ever ridden.
There are reasons I don't ride them in smaller sizes, but
you're not asking about smaller sizes.

If you try one, it might mean a new quiver.

-Craig



brynkaufman2 wrote:
I am looking to add an 8.5 sail for days when it is not gusting over 15 mph.

I have the Ezzy 6.5 Cheetah, and the Ezzy 7.5 Freeride, and am very happy with both sails. So right now I am leaning towards the Ezzy Cheetah.

The 6.5 takes to me gusts up to 25 mph, the 7.5 takes me to gusts up to 20 mph, so I am hoping the 8.5 becomes my go to sail when gusting under 15 mph. Many times I am going good on the 7.5, but would like to go a little faster, have more upwind ability, and perhaps a little earlier planing too.

However, I heard a lot of great things about the Retro, so if anyone has any advice, please let me know before I buy.

Thanks
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 383
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SeaDawg, I know the feeling, as I was kind of waiting for my Ezzy 7.5 to go and I am realizing now that is not going to happen easily. These sails last a long time!

cgoudie1, if someone has experience with both and feels the Retro offers more power, but still handles the gusts just as well, I would probably switch.

I am satisfied with my Ezzy sails when the wind is blowing pretty good, but I just need a little more power on those really light days. I don't think it is an Ezzy issue, I think it is a sail size issue, and I hope the 8.5 is my solution.
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gvogelsang



Joined: 09 Nov 1988
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an 8.5 size, I am thinking that the Lion would be a better choice than the Cheetah - just a hunch. The twin cam Lion will hold its shape going through lulls, which will help get through them. The Lion will also be more stable in gusts.

Unless you are dead set against cambers, the Lion should be under consideration.

Both sails have been redesigned for 2016 to make them lighter, and flatter in the upper sections to handle gusts better.

I am going through the same decision process, and I am also very interested in the Retro as well. I have a 7.5 Lion and a 6.5 Cheetah.

One other sail to consider is the Ezzy Zephyr 7.5, if you are primarily going to be using it on a longer board. It has a full pocket and a longer boom, which gives it more low end power than the 7.5 Cheetah. I actually use a Zephyr on both an old Formula board, and a Firemove 122 with success. It doesn't jibe great because of the longer boom, but in those conditions I am happy just to get planing and back in the straps. I wish that David Ezzy made another Zephyr in a bigger size, for real marginal days when I use my Formula board. But he would probabaly contend that in those conditions, the Lion is a better idea.

I am interested to follow this discussion vis a vis the Retro.
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 383
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gvogelsang, wow, great idea. You know I did not think about the Lion because the cams turned me off, but I think I should not be so fast to dismiss it. If it provides more low end power and more stability in the gusts, than that is actually what I need, and I have to get over my issue with cams.

Do you have any issues with your Lion and the Cams? If you were me would you get the Lion?

I have noticed a guy with a 7.6 cammed sail going out in winds where I am rigging a 5 something. I asked him how he handles it, and he said the cams really help.

I never had a sail with cams as I heard they were a hassle, but it sounds like the Lion 3 has made cams less of a hassle.

I believe the Zephyr is not available in the size I want as it is hard to get because it was discontinued.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5057
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP. WHAT BOARD for the 7.5 and potential 8.5 ?If your weight is light , from my experience the 7.5 to 8.5 is not worth it.

Heavier 490 mast and sail , sail becomes less manageable, but maybe you are large and strong like bull.

My vote for the 8.5 CHEETAH, NOT CAMMED LION, saying you will get used to it is like getting used to a toothache.


If the 2016 7.5 Cheetah had the smaller sails 6 battens , I would say get it.

_________________
K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you

http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19222

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ezzys have long had a reputation -- even among devoted fans -- of sailing great one year, ordinary or even comparably poor the next, then great again. He is wiling to try new ideas (remember the neoprene wedge in the head to encourage leech twist in the gusts?), some of which aren't too successful despite his personal obsession with exceptional build quality.

OTON, I have never heard (or made) even one complaint about ANY Retro, with the possible and rare exception of magazine gear testers who are supposed to find something to complain about. Their only shortcoming, and it's slight, seems to be in racing to upwind buoys head to head against comparable drivers on top cambered race sails. Bruce and his Retro fans feel that singular difference is a small price to pay for their perceived/claimed superiority in virtually every other rigging and performance factor.
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 383
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2, I am using the http://www.exocet-original.com/wind-sup10.php. I also run with a 50 cm racing fin instead of the stock fin. http://www.mauifin.com/catalog/windsurf/windsurf-fins/kpr/

I weigh 160 lbs. and do find I am pretty exhausted after 1 hour with my 7.5 sail, although I do not feel over powered. So I am a light weight.

The reviews on the Lion say it is the best cammed sail to rig and easy to use, although maybe it is still considerably harder than a non-cammed sail. I am willing to put up with a little extra rigging time to get more low end power and more upper end wind stability, if that claim is really true.

I do have a concern that the improvement will be marginal, because I realize at a certain low wind speed nothing will get me on a plane. It is just tough to tell what it will be like without trying it. I am hoping it is faster, with more upwind speed, and more low end power, and less stalling in the gusts.

isobars, good to know about the Retro, that is why it is at the top of my list along with the Ezzy.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1087
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting and yet confusing

WindSUP with a 50 cm fin and you want to plane in light wind ??
max recommended sail for the board is 8-oh
feels to me like you are using the wrong tools, but what do i know
as a heavyweight, light winds means wide FreeFormula with 10-oh
even lighter wind means longboard

agree that 7.5 to 8.5 means 1+ knot advantage with potential costs - mast, boom (fin is covered)
usually people seem to go 7.5 to 9.0 or even 9.5

i go 10-oh, 8.5 and then 7-oh

Retro has great range BUT requires tuning - adjustable outhaul recommended
my HotSailsMaui SpeedFreak 8.5 has the most range of any 8.x sail I have tried without adjustable outhaul and no need to go in
for grunt they at HSM are now adding one camber
this is the lightest , rangiest sail i have ever used
they are more soft/flex top and i use a NP mast with it

so, it depends on preference - grunt, stability, long lasting, etc
MANY choices - not just Ezzys n Retros
(and not just windSUPs)
hope you are not using 50 cm fin with the 6.5 !!

i also have a fully cambered TR-6 8.4
when the conditions are less choppy and more consistent i love that sail
however, i do not like to waterstart nor uphaul that sail
cambers in a sail with a tight leech are MUCH more tolerable !!!


Last edited by joethewindsufa on Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:07 pm; edited 5 times in total
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