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Large freeride RAF sails with shape
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akrausz



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 144
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Large freeride RAF sails with shape Reply with quote

A common critique of RAF sails is that they lose their deep draft as winds change, unlike cammed sails. Yet Ezzy Cheetahs seem to have a deeper pre-shaped profile than most other RAF sails I have ever seen. This seems more advantageous to me in a large freeride sail, and I wonder why all other sail manufacturers haven't adopted this design. Does this make it less effective when trying to sheet-out when overpowered? That is the only possible trade-off I can think of.

Last edited by akrausz on Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:17 pm; edited 4 times in total
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4917
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Simmer has full shape rigged and only moves about 2" more with wind.
Flat static sails are quicker to flip during jibes, and some say they uphaul slightly easier.
My Lofts are very flat.
I find the flat rigged no cam sails pump easier...more effect per pump.
Draftier sails seem to need less pumping, but also pump worse.
Another factor is how little breeze is needed to fill out each of the sails.
Even most 3+ cam sails fill out a bit with proper wind.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9950

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you ever tried Sailworks Retros? I bought a 7.0 a few years back, and matched it with their 100% carbon Lightstick RDM. This rig combination is probably one of the best I've ever used. I was extremely impressed with its shape, power, adjustability and lightness, and it handles and sets up for waterstarting better that any other sail in that size than I have ever used, and that says a lot.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4917
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have 5.5, 6.0, and 7.0 Retros.
Good, but so are Norths, Gaastras, Lofts in that size.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Large freeride RAF sails with shape Reply with quote

akrausz wrote:
A common critique of RAF sails is that they lose their deep draft as winds change, unlike cammed sails. Yet Ezzy Cheetahs seem to have a deeper pre-shaped profile than most other RAF sails I have ever seen. This seems more advantageous to me in a large freeride sail, and I wonder why all other sail manufacturers haven't adopted this design. Does this make it less effective when trying to sheet-out when overpowered? That is the only possible trade-off I can think of.


I never tried a Cheeta but I use Point-7 ACX. They look normal, with a moderate amount of profile that fills in when powered up but their top speed performance is on par of cammed sailed (up to a point, don't take them, or any other RAF, to Luderitz). Clocked the 6.5 nicely above 30 knots. And ... you do not need to sheet them out when overpowered, they spill extra wind beautifully and the amount of wind they can hold is quite amazing. Very easy to handle, they lock in but still turn on a dime. They are free-race sails but I have used the 5.4 and 5.8 in B&J with great results.

So ... very different design, no "pre-shaped profile" but it works fantastic.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask David Ezzy email his site
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3345

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my aerotechs have the static profile that may look flatter the ezzy's, but they dynamically fill out when loaded. not many folks in my local venues run their sails as full as i do. my sail rubs the boom all the way up to the front harness line. does yours?

just because one can rig a sail to look good on the beach, doesn't mean it performs well on the water. especially if one does not tension the down haul to the right length. other the years, prydes have been that way. they sail best when they look very over down hauled.

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akrausz



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 144
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
My Simmer has full shape rigged and only moves about 2" more with wind.
Flat static sails are quicker to flip during jibes, and some say they uphaul slightly easier.
My Lofts are very flat.
I find the flat rigged no cam sails pump easier...more effect per pump.
Draftier sails seem to need less pumping, but also pump worse.
Another factor is how little breeze is needed to fill out each of the sails.
Even most 3+ cam sails fill out a bit with proper wind.

Thanks good info.

swchandler wrote:
Have you ever tried Sailworks Retros?

Yes I had a Retro 8.0 years back. But I never had a Sailworks mast, so that might have held it back for me.

dvCali wrote:
I use Point-7 ACX. They look normal, with a moderate amount of profile that fills in when powered up

That's what I have noticed from the pictures I have seen.

NOVAAN wrote:
Ask David Ezzy email his site

I think this is more of question for the other sail companies, however Ezzy has excellent sail design theory information on their site.

jingebritsen wrote:
my aerotechs have the static profile that may look flatter the ezzy's, but they dynamically fill out when loaded. not many folks in my local venues run their sails as full as i do. my sail rubs the boom all the way up to the front harness line. does yours?

Yes I tend to rig full like that.


Last edited by akrausz on Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 992
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sails seem to go through fads.
Ezzy came up with the first new non RAF design
That made sails more like they had a CAM even when
they didn't have cams . (with seam shaping) He went back to deep draft which meant
for me I couldn't de power them in gusty conditions and
just as I was starting to learn old school freestyle moves.
Also he went to deep draft power sails.
When we were in the flat sail era all the sails where pretty flat.
Seem's like all the Sails are going back to power shapes now.
Looks like and RAF will always de power more.
You want a sail that de powers if you are doing maneuvers.
If you just want to get up and going then power and stability
may be your thing.
The early non camed sails where quite floppy I use to love
cams for there stability now non camed sails are just as stable.

Where you live and how much and the quality of the wind will
have a lot to do with what you like .
If you live in area that has heavy gusty wind you may value
something you can control over something that get's you going
early.


Last edited by ctuna on Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:00 pm; edited 3 times in total
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4917
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailing style is different for different sailors.
I'm old school, never ever sheet out when overpowered except to Glide for a moment while looking around taking a break.
Most freestylers sheet in and out depending on power needs. They are the new school.
Stands to reason why different sail designs are offered.
I have and use both.
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