Anyone besides Formula use sails over 10 m² ??

[joethewindsufa]

don't worry bluefish1
in 2015 i was supposed to take a session about foot straps with VoilOka and Sailboarder
neither happened obviously
here encouragement, ridicule, suggestion , etc all point to the same thing
in 2016 joe windsurfer MUST be in footstraps
and i WILL post it here first

in order to end discussion on footstraps here - will start new post ..

[wynsurfer]

Hey Joe,

Now you're talking! In no time at all you will succeed and be going twice as fast.
Your enjoyment will skyrocket!

Having goals in life is very important. It is better to try and fail than to never try in the first place. This is a very realistic goal which may not be as hard or as dangerous as you imagine it to be.

Keep a positive attitude! We all know you can do it!

[beaglebuddy]

Is your fear such that you will crash and break your ankle or that you will drown? Seems that either scenario is highly unlikely. Yes some people have broken ankles but this was in waves where the straps are set loose and a foot got jammed in too far. Every time I have crashed while in strap(s) I flew out so quickly it was not an issue. As for drowning I have ever heard of this happening.
Perhaps set up the straps and practice on dry land jamming your feet in and out, you will see it is not possible to get stuck.

[gregnw44]

I'm catching up on some iW posts... and read through this thread, from the beginning. There's lots of good info here... but also some mis-communication.
The title is something like, "Does anyone besides FW racer's... ever use bigger sails than 10M" ??
And there are some varied opinions. But then, Joe posts a vid where he's sailing a big free-ride board and marginally planning with a 10M. And after people watch the vid... the thread changes to, "Dude, it's about time to get in those footstraps, eh?"
And there's a lot of good intel on strap use. To which the OP says, "it's time to start a new thread about strap phobia"... which he did.
So my comment is back to the original question (move on, if you don't like novels
Answer - "Yes, tons of people who sail in light wind's all over the world, use 11-12M sails" !!

And it is often NOT about getting planning. It is about cruising along faster, in light wind. It is about light wind racing. It is about "just having enough power" to lean back in the harness, so you're not holding up the sail all the time. And other reasons.
All else being equal (sailor weight, board, sailor skill) when windsurfing in light wind (from 1-10 knots) a 11M sail of the same design, will be faster than a 10M sail (of the same design).
My "practical advice" for Joe is a bit complicated... because he already has a very nice and relatively powerful 10M sail. He would have to buy the "right" 11M to make it worthwhile. Many 11M sails are modern FW racing sails, and they aren't so great for a longboard in light wind, because they make those darn things TOO HEAVY and the top 1/3 twists off. Which means you get very little lift or drive from the top of the sail... all you're doing is carrying around a bunch of useless weight.
If you could find a '90-'97 11M sail that is light and makes good power all the way to the top... then it'd be worth it. It would be light, because it should be lightweight clear monofilm... and 6-7 battens... and 3-4 cams. All the newer FW 11M sails since about 2004 are heavy x-ply... and 8-9 battens... but still have 3-4 cams.
Old jumbo race sails are great because they only weigh about 11 lbs. and they make more power in light wind (so you go faster) and they rig easy with moderate tension. The newer 11M race sails are heavy 15 lbs and they make less power in light wind, and they're a hassle to rig cause of the hi-tension. (Unless you're a skilled FW racer, in moderate 10-20 wind, then they're GREAT.)
The old light 11M sails are easy to carry in and out of the water, and they're easier to uphaul, tack and jibe... cause they're way lighter. And they make way more drive/lift, so you go faster in light wind, compared to a modern 11M race sail.
Joe's 10M however, is kinda modern, and it is heavy... but it does make more power, than some other contemporary race sail designs.
Therefore, he's not going to notice much difference, with a newer 11M... unless he's doing some light wind longboard races, then he would.

Next - His words... he describes his JP SLW 92 as a Free Formula board. And so people see that and think he has a Formula board... but he doesn't. A Free Formula board is actually a model from Starboard. It is a formula board that is made from more durable material to last longer... but the design is an actual copy of their modern FW board.
However, Joe's JP SLW 92 is MUCH different. It's not a free formula designed for racing up and down wind. It's a BIG free-ride board for doing all round general shortboard free-riding in wind's from 10-20. It's longer and narrower than modern FW boards. And the tail is WAY narrower than a FW. And the footstraps are set much more inboard, as compared to a FW. It's comfy going BAF and it has much easier foot straps to get into, compared to a FW.

Don't get me wrong, the JP SLW 92 is NOT a beginner board. It is a hi-performance, light weight, expensive, big free-ride board designed for advanced sailors. I'm just saying, it's much easier to sail well compared to a FW, and it's designed to sail well on all points of sail, and it jibes way easier (compared to a FW).


Anyway, back to jumbo sails - Joe I'd say, just keep your 10M sail and practice with it. You have a good one. The only reason I'd change (if I were you) would be if I had someone to sell it to... and then could find an 11 or bigger, that's designed the way you like. And the main reason to do it... would be do go slightly faster in light wind, sub-planning... which you would notice in racing with your peers.

Keep up the great job, Greg

[techno900]

grewnw44 said:

[lucashurt]

Techno I don't think you read the rest of his post. He is recommending that old big sail in a context of racing longboards in sub-planning conditions which is probably the only circumstances that Joe would find an advantage of an extra meter of sail.

By pointing out that the old style full power jumbo sail isn't good for formula in higher winds, I don't think you're actually disagreeing.

[gvogelsang]

gregnw44's reply was very well thought out, and brilliantly on topic.

In the right conditions, a bigger "light wind" sail might get Joe planing earlier, and in fact, help him get into the straps - because he would be planing easier.

Let's start a topic thread on best light/marginal huge sails for planing on a JP Super Light wind or Starboard Ultrasonic. Because, for us big guys, this is an important topic.

[techno900]

My only objection to the old (no twist) race sails is that they have no range. If one only wants to cruise on a longboard in light winds, great, no problem. Trying to hang on to an 11.0 in a 15+ gust can be a royal pain in the ass. Maybe Joe is heavy enough that he will get more range out of one, but he should know the issues with those old sails. More power and lighter weight is great, but getting tossed over the nose isn't so great.

Joe has a free formula and if he wants the old style sail to get planing, and if there is enough wind to get him planing with decent speed, then there may well be gusts that will overpower him.

When I had my 10.4 Neil Pryde, I first used it for longboard racing and eventually tried it on Formula. Essentially, I hated to take it out in 5-15 winds because I knew at some point I was going to get hammered. In 0-10 winds on the longboard, no problem, but that was a rare occasion.

As I said in the last post - "In steady winds, no problem, so it depends on where you sail."

[beaglebuddy]

11M Retro, no longer made so find a used one.

[gregnw44]

Yeah sorry... there's a lot of details in my LONG post... but if you separate out the various topics... it's all covered, if you read it carefully. And really, like Lucas says, we're all mostly agreeing.
In no particular order -
Techno900 : No, Joe doesn't have a Free Formula. He has a BIG free-ride board (slalom-ish board).

And as I said, Joe would do just fine keeping his semi-modern 10M race sail, that he already owns. Where he sails, he has enough wind that he can use that on his longboard or his BIG free-ride board. He can have fun subplaning with it on his longboard in 2-10 knot wind. And when it's 10-20 knots, he can plane on his JP SLW 92.

My thought to consider an old, light, powerful 11+ size sail was for just going faster in subplaning longboard sailing (which he does, occasionally). Sails like this are THE BEST for going fast on all points of sail in wind below 12 knots. In Seattle, this is the most common wind, so they are very effective, fast, easy and fun. But good ones are hard to find. So people will buy new-ish FW race sails... and they work ok, but not as good. These designs work best for planning wind's above 10 knots.

As we all have said... it really depends on the conditions you're going to sail in.
Greg