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The Catholic Church

 
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12819
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject: The Catholic Church Reply with quote

Mrgybe is not in the habit of responding to what people write, instead he misinterprets their posts to spout right wing nonsense. His latest deserves a separate topic.

Quote:
Still seething about someone calling out his anti Catholic comments six years ago.....part of a pattern of similar anti Catholic comments. I encourage anyone to read the specific exchange that still keeps him up at night and draw your own conclusions.


Gybe seems to have two items of faith--the infallibility of the oil companies and the Catholic church. Since both have fallen dramatically in popularity, he is understandably defensive when criticism comes their way. But he fails to understand that the common problem that has led to their loss of credibility is their pattern of lying about their behavior.

There is a difference between the Catholic laity and the Catholic hierarchy that I suspect mrgybe understands. I grew up Catholic, going to Catholic schools, and knew hundreds of good Catholics who were comforted by their faith. I recognize the value of that. But I also had experience with the male adults of the Knights of Columbus, who used their role in the church for social status, and had the same sanctimonious attitude that mrgybe displays. People of quiet faith who inspire me are seldom sanctimonious.

So what was the church doing while I was an altar boy learning the Latin responses to the liturgy? Abusing children and covering it up. In the United States alone, more than 30 bishops and archbishops have been accused of either sexual abuse or covering up the abuse of others. The BBC reports that tens of thousands of children were abused--and the churches response was to protect the abusers, not the children. The church has paid over $4 billion in sex abuse claims, and the evidence is that the cover-up in the church went into the Vatican. This effort was a criminal conspiracy.

My point then, and now, is that the US Bishops organization has no moral high ground to stand on and lecture the country about women's health issues like contraception. What moral high ground it once had it gave away, and as the sexual shenanigans in the Vatican hierarchy have come to light, the church has demonstrated that an organization that denies women a vote in setting spiritual policy has developed a very warped and kinky view of sexuality. It can be seen in its full hypocrisy as Clarence Thomas rants about established abortion law, describing the D & C method which Alabama unsuccessfully tried to ban as “abortion via live dismemberment.” In the same week, Mohammed bin Salman, who ordered the actual dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi and is responsible for the deaths of thousands of children in Yemen, was feted by Trump.

The second point that I make about the Catholic bishops in the US is that they have become a very dark and partisan political force, in contravention to both the Constitutional protections of freedom of religion, and law. Churches in the United States, and those who donate to them, enjoy the benefits of exemption from taxation on their property, their purchases, and part of their donations. That is worth more than $70 billion a year in absolving churches from taxes, and lets donors get tax relief from at least $80 billion a year in donations. In effect, those of us who do not belong to a church subsidize those who do.

In exchange for this tax exempt status, "a charitable nonprofit promises the federal government that it will not engage in “political campaign activity” and if it does, IRS regulations mandate that the charitable nonprofit will lose its tax-exempt status." (National Council of Nonprofits). Many churches in this country ignore this requirement, and the Catholic Church has been particularly partisan in its support for both restrictions on birth control services, and candidates. In an increasing number of areas, the Church has moved into the health care field, and its hospitals are second guessing women's doctors on issues including birth control and hysterectomies, not merely abortion.

Religion and spirituality are wonderful things. But in this country, we have the freedom to practice the religion of our choice--including no religion at all. I object to subsidizing a religious organization that infringes on my rights.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12819
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imagine that, a sanctimonious--and corrupt--Catholic bishop.

Quote:
Michael J. Bransfield, then-bishop of the Diocese of Wheeling-Charleston, W.Va., in 2015. (Scott McCloskey/Intelligencer/AP)
By Robert O'Harrow Jr. and
Shawn Boburg July 3 at 10:19 AM
Senior Catholic leaders in the United States and the Vatican began receiving warnings about West Virginia Bishop Michael J. Bransfield as far back as 2012. In letters and emails, parishioners claimed that Bransfield was abusing his power and misspending church money on luxuries such as a personal chef, a chauffeur, first-class travel abroad and more than $1 million in renovations to his residence.

“I beg of you to please look into this situation,” Linda Abrahamian, a parishioner from Martinsburg, W.Va., wrote in 2013 to the pope’s ambassador to the United States.

But Bransfield’s conduct went unchecked for five more years. He resigned in September 2018 after one of his closest aides came forward with an incendiary inside account of years of sexual and financial misconduct, including the claim that Bransfield sought to “purchase influence” by giving hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash gifts to senior Catholic leaders.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 6382

PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Imagine that, a sanctimonious--and corrupt--Catholic bishop.

Quote:
Michael J. Bransfield, then-bishop of the Diocese of Wheeling-Charleston, W.Va., in 2015. (Scott McCloskey/Intelligencer/AP)
By Robert O'Harrow Jr. and
Shawn Boburg July 3 at 10:19 AM
Senior Catholic leaders in the United States and the Vatican began receiving warnings about West Virginia Bishop Michael J. Bransfield as far back as 2012. In letters and emails, parishioners claimed that Bransfield was abusing his power and misspending church money on luxuries such as a personal chef, a chauffeur, first-class travel abroad and more than $1 million in renovations to his residence.

“I beg of you to please look into this situation,” Linda Abrahamian, a parishioner from Martinsburg, W.Va., wrote in 2013 to the pope’s ambassador to the United States.

But Bransfield’s conduct went unchecked for five more years. He resigned in September 2018 after one of his closest aides came forward with an incendiary inside account of years of sexual and financial misconduct, including the claim that Bransfield sought to “purchase influence” by giving hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash gifts to senior Catholic leaders.



I can't image spending one day in your hateful shoes.....you really are a pathetic POS.
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 8486

PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm certain that there are plenty of Berkeley inhabitants who are child molesters....
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12819
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalibuGuru wrote:
I'm certain that there are plenty of Berkeley inhabitants who are child molesters....


You have to be kidding me. You idiots play Johnny did it when yet another catholic Bishop—the hierarchy of the church—is caught? Does it occur to you that the church is failing to pay attention to its religious guides?

But what would I expect of people who celebrate Trump’s crimes and cruelty.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 6382

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
MalibuGuru wrote:
I'm certain that there are plenty of Berkeley inhabitants who are child molesters....


You have to be kidding me. You idiots play Johnny did it when yet another catholic Bishop—the hierarchy of the church—is caught? Does it occur to you that the church is failing to pay attention to its religious guides?

But what would I expect of people who celebrate Trump’s crimes and cruelty.


Crimes????? only in your mind....Cruelty?????? fabricated and hypocritical BS.

The Catholic Church has some serious problems...But just once I would like to see a coward like you call out Islam and its violent and disgusting treatment of woman , children, and gays......the sound of silence.... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12819
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matty again demonstrates the right wing phenomenon of trying to make up positions for those they disagree with. He adds his own personal touch of bigotry and ignorance.

I have indeed posted strong criticism of some of the Muslim sects--specifically the Wahhabi movement--which preach abhorrent things and violence. I also despair at the Sunni/Shia schism, which has persisted for centuries. But none of those sects are centered in the United States. There are fundamental differences between the religions, and in particularly the hierarchical structures, that goes right over the head of bigots like Matty.

There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world, more than the 1.2 billion Catholics. But the Muslim religion has no structured hierarchy or organized clergy--in that respect it is more like evangelical Christianity than Catholicism.

In the United States there are about 72 million Catholics and about 90 million evangelicals according to the Pew Center. The Catholic church has a rigid hierarchy, and a doctrine of infallibility for the Pope when he is speaking on matters of faith. The nature of evangelical Christianity and Muslim communities is instead very disorganized and non-hierarchical. My brother became an evangelical minister and has preached in any number of tiny communities in New Mexico.

I have nothing against any of these faiths--the vast majority of their written materials support charity, particularly to those disrupted by war in their homes. Religious beliefs provide comfort and community for those who believe, and in this country we are free to believe--or not believe--as we choose.

The nature of all of these religions differs in the country and community where they are centered. French Catholicism is different from American Catholicism, and the sects in Iran and Saudi Arabia are fighting proxy wars throughout the Middle East that are killing more children than the Border Patrol

The objections that I raise have to do with the ties between country and religion, and particularly with the Catholic Bishops siding with their priests, not with their followers. There are people in all faiths that live evil lives--but the Catholic Church is unique in having covered up sexual abuse and financial crimes for decades. Some of this is, in my opinion, tied to the Catholic's church's requirement of chastity for priests and misogyny.

Right over Matty's head. Too much earwax?
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