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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Realize that my comments refer to the 8-3, not the XL. From JPeter's comments, I gather the two boards are quite different, as mine is an early planer on any terrain from mirror-flat ponds to overhead swell on the river. Or maybe he's using smaller sails than he would on a wave board; I'm using the same sails I use on Gorge sinkers -- 6.2 to 3.2 (the former when it's averaging 20 mph, the latter when it's full-on nuking conditions.) |
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jpeter
Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: |
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I use 5.7 quite a bit sometimes 5.3 or 4.7. This past Wed was 8-12 NE wind side off in 3-6ft waves. Awesome session!
From what I get looking at the translated French sealion blogs and forums, there is a slight difference between the two boards. The rocker profile is pretty close, so when I do buy one I am not expecting it to "windsurf plane well". Isobars is the only person I have ever heard that claims that it planes well in all conditions. Everyone is different, range from love to hate on the lion.
My advise is against the sealion unless you plan to use it in waves, then of course IT KICKS ASS.
If you want a board that actually planes, wave surfs, and has volume: Quatro 110 is the machine. I use mine whenever I can, as long as it is waterstartable conditions.
JP |
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mraupp
Joined: 18 Sep 2015
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Hi JP and others,
Thanks for your reply and info. First of all I am look for a board for really light wind wavesailing, I don't live that long at the east coast and I noticed during surfing that the conditions can be really good for light wind wavesailing instead of surfing. I showed up a couple of times at Ocean City with my goya 104 and the forecast in mind, but the wind was far to less...So I have also to find my way with the forecasts...I am also looking for a board to learn my kids the first steps of windsurfing, the centre fin should help I think, and when the waves are there but not ok for short boarding I hope I can use the lion as a Sup...And I don't want to buy 3 boards, but I am looking for a compromise...With the purchase of a Lion XL I hope I can make some more days on the water with my family and myself.
Thanks again for your info, best regards, Maarten
| jpeter wrote: | +2 on Windsurfdeal in cali
I have the XL, find it a good surf paddle board and windsup. I bought the XL cause of the centerboard to teach windsurfing to my son. In a perfect world I would own the 83.
It sort of planes, not really, Small chop not at all. As you power it up the drag just increases so youre planning but dragging an anchor. ON A WAVE IT RIPS. So you need to embrace that fact and not even try to plane, just maneuver to where you can ride a wave. It's good in waves from side-on to side-off. Real small wave/windswell dead on breaking in shallow water can be fun also.
I have so many great days out on it when either surfers or windsurfers are out of luck due to a bit of wind.
JP |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jpeter wrote: | | I use 5.7 quite a bit sometimes 5.3 or 4.7. This past Wed was 8-12 NE wind side off in 3-6ft waves. |
That's why you can't plane on it without wave power. I drop to 5.3 only if it's averaging mid-20s mph, to a 4.7 when it's averaging in the upper 20s. If I had waves independent of wind speed, I'd need much less sail power.
| jpeter wrote: | | Isobars is the only person I have ever heard that claims that it planes well in all conditions ... |
I didn't say that. I'd need upper teens (mph) with a 7.5 to plane via sail power, and I don't know how well balanced it may be under a 7.5 as I don't own one. What I DID say was that with averages of 20 to 40 mph, my 6.2 to 3.2 quiver planes fine on it, waves or no waves. Several posters, its videos, and its west coast distributor agree (although Jurg, the latter, may be surprised at its manageability in that upper wind range; he suggested a practical top-out of maybe 30 mph average).
| jpeter wrote: | | Everyone is different, range from love to hate on the lion. |
Planing has nothing to do with emotions, everything to do with whether it's in displacement mode (aka slogging) or planing mode.
| jpeter wrote: | | My advise is against the sealion unless you plan to use it in waves |
That was Bill Bell's advice, too, but Jurg had a talking-to with him. Whether Bill bought it or not, I wouldn't know. Did you read wdsurf's posts on it in this and other windSUP threads for use in the Great Lakes?
| jpeter wrote: | | If you want a board that actually planes, wave surfs, and has volume: Quatro 110 is the machine. I use mine whenever I can, as long as it is waterstartable conditions. JP |
For windsurfing, of course. I was ecstatic to get back on a windsurfing board, with footstraps and half the volume of the SL ... but that'a not the OP's objective. |
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jpeter
Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Iso, my love hate comment had nothing to do with the planning, but more to do with Long board windsup vs the lion. There are a few folks out there who think long board is the solution and that sealion is only good for side -off wave sailing.
Yes it planes when overpowered but feels like it is dragging an anchor cause it has rocker like a banana. you can't get around that. I have sailed it in 20-30 mph wind with the 5.7 ... For those not familiar with no strap sailing one would think that would be impossible, but it's controllable. Not my idea of fun though.
The board(s) are designed for wave riding, or times you are not planning at all. So if you are trying to plane on it, you are fighting it. There is a very narrow range of wind and chop size where you can sort of plane and feel ok.
Done arguing here, Just trying to quell some misinformation. I would not want anyone to buy the board for light wind lawn mowing, they will not be happy. The OP has got the right use in mind so its all good.
http://www.pbase.com/jaypetersen/image/156259927
JP |
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motogon
Joined: 19 Aug 2000
Posts: 376
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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mraupp, you can buy Fanatic SUP locally in NJ, which will work same well (if not better) as Sea Lion, but cost less. Also buying locally you can try board before you buy it.
_________________
Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jpeter wrote: | if you are trying to plane on it, you are fighting it. There is a very narrow range of wind and chop size where you can sort of plane and feel ok.
Just trying to quell some misinformation.
I would not want anyone to buy the board for light wind lawn mowing, they will not be happy. |
On that last sentence we agree fully. It's too maneuverable to waste it on full-time slogging on flat water, and a kid can learn to WS on just about any floaty board, especially with a daggerboard.
But I feel your opening paragraph IS misinformation, given the success I had in a very wide ... virtually full ... range of Gorge conditions, where if I'm not planing, I'm gonna go ashore and do something else. I'm just a hack, but MANY people told me they were amazed at what that board can do. I've enjoyed it a great deal -- certainly beyond all expectations of mine or Jurg's -- when many long-time Gorge visitors were blown off the water, and I sure as heck wasn't slogging. That doesn't sound like "fighting it" or "sort of planing" to me.
Just trying to give the OP what I'm convinced is a more accurate picture of what the board can do. And to that end, I should add that now that my surgeon lets me back in the straps, my SL is confined to storage until my next leg injury*. The only venue in which I'd prefer the SL in sail mode over a dedicated WS wave board is when there are waves but not enough wind for a WS board ... a mix we don't get in my neighborhood.
• If I were into creating challenges for myself -- a la freestyle -- or if I had wind and terrain available four times as often as the Gorge offers, I'd still use the SL often. Sailing it well in swell or waves is a whole new challenge, and taught me a lot that I have applied to strapped-in WSing. But since I live in the real world and time and wind are in short supply, I'm not going to sacrifice high-performance, strapped-in, light-weight, high-speed, high-altitude opportunities on the altar of artificial challenges. I'm challenged enough as it is ... and still hoping our discussion is giving the OP a better picture of this board compared to his countless other options.
What I can't offer is any comparison with the SL's competitors. |
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mraupp
Joined: 18 Sep 2015
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Andrew, which board do you suggest? Both the Stubby and Allwave have windsurf inserts, but don't have an option for a centre fin. Buying a new board and put an extra finbox at the centre is right now one step to far for me...or the boards should be that cheap that putting a box in doesn't matter. And which shop do you suggest. I am brand new around...Thanks for your help!
| starik333 wrote: | | mraupp, you can buy Fanatic SUP locally in NJ, which will work same well (if not better) as Sea Lion, but cost less. Also buying locally you can try board before you buy it. |
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motogon
Joined: 19 Aug 2000
Posts: 376
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I would suggest Allwave. I don't think you need center fin.
Call or email Jim Karabasz from ExtremeWindsurfing
_________________
Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job. |
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jpeter
Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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YOU don't need a center fin, but it helps a lot when teaching the kids. I put a 12" slalom fin in mine when letting my son use it. A second unintended consequence is that it acts as a sacrificial depth sounder, saving your good rear fins from damage when the little ones go too shallow.
I was under the impression that Fanatics were pricey, but very durable. The Sealion goes for 1300 + 100 to ship. Thought the Fanatics and starboard (similar const) were more than that.
JP |
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