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DanWeiss
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2296
Location: Connecticut, USA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| bmoore98 wrote: | | Yes I too learned of the foot strap insert positions only when I was unwrapping the board. No problem for me because I'm an outside strap guy but imagine what a shock it would be if inside was really important to you. |
Why anyone would purchase such an expensive board to use the compromised inside position for the front straps is beyond me. If outside straps are offered, they are the primary ones, located intensionally by design and performance. The inside positions appear in almost all cases as a pure compromise, very occasionally just a bit inboard to accommodate bigfoot, but usually just a backhand wave to those learning to use straps.
The problem with learning on a performance board using the inside location is how flighty and totally different the outside straps will make the board feel if that transition is ever attempted. Many folks simply find it impossible to trust the proper position -even though the board performs as intended in the outside straps. We went though this in the early days of FW, when many intermediates bolted straps inboard and never really got in gear. The board kept sticking and the rig loaded up, making the entry into FW an exhausting exercise in frustration. Many were shocked by watching decent FW sailors on a fat-non FW shortboards using outboard straps smoke the FW boards when sailed on inboard straps.
Kona intended the CarbOne to appeal to windsurfers who wanted the highest possible performance from the Kona One hull and to satisfy the desire of some to own a "prestigious" board. That includes folks with lots of high-end race board experience and others who've spent time on carbon racing boards before and look to those experiences as a measure of real performance. The CarbOne was never intended as a progression board, though it works beautifully, if not too delicately, in that capacity.
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| DanWeiss wrote: | | bmoore98 wrote: | | Yes I too learned of the foot strap insert positions only when I was unwrapping the board. No problem for me because I'm an outside strap guy but imagine what a shock it would be if inside was really important to you. |
Why anyone would purchase such an expensive board to use the compromised inside position for the front straps is beyond me. If outside straps are offered, they are the primary ones, located intensionally by design and performance. The inside positions appear in almost all cases as a pure compromise, very occasionally just a bit inboard to accommodate bigfoot, but usually just a backhand wave to those learning to use straps.
The problem with learning on a performance board using the inside location is how flighty and totally different the outside straps will make the board feel if that transition is ever attempted. Many folks simply find it impossible to trust the proper position -even though the board performs as intended in the outside straps. We went though this in the early days of FW, when many intermediates bolted straps inboard and never really got in gear. The board kept sticking and the rig loaded up, making the entry into FW an exhausting exercise in frustration. Many were shocked by watching decent FW sailors on a fat-non FW shortboards using outboard straps smoke the FW boards when sailed on inboard straps.
Kona intended the CarbOne to appeal to windsurfers who wanted the highest possible performance from the Kona One hull and to satisfy the desire of some to own a "prestigious" board. That includes folks with lots of high-end race board experience and others who've spent time on carbon racing boards before and look to those experiences as a measure of real performance. The CarbOne was never intended as a progression board, though it works beautifully, if not too delicately, in that capacity. |
Well... yes... and no.
It's all about having a couple "suitable" options. Are the inside strap locations on a Kona One suitable for some sailors? I say yes. And I think they should be on the CarbOne for the same reason.
I agree... an expert sailor needs to put leverage and weight in certain places on the board, for certain performance goals in certain wind and water states.
However, let's look at two sailors.
Sailor A is 6'3" tall and weighs 210 lbs and has size 13 feet. Not me, just an example.
Sailor B is 5'10" tall and weighs 175 lbs and has size 10 feet. Not Dan, just an example.
Can sailor A put the same leverage on the rail of a CarbOne with his feet planted an inch inboard... as sailor B can with his feet planted on the rail??
You smart math guys can do the geometry. But I'd say the taller and heavier guy with bigger feet can put way more leverage or weight on the rail, than the shorter, lighter sailor with smaller feet. And sailor A can quickly shift his weight from his toes to his heels and cause great changes in the trim of the board.
But if sailor A has a board with only strap locations on the rail... he won't be able to get in them unless he's going fast enough for the board (and his rig) to support his weight. He will be standing ON the straps, until he's going fast enough. And he'll need a much bigger sail than the lighter sailor, so his weight is supported to he can get in those straps. All this limits options. And I like options.
In Kona racing lighter guys use smaller sails... so perhaps both sailors will get in the straps at about the same wind speed. But free-sailing with your buds on all different kinds of boards in light wind, when everyone has 11M sails... it would be nice to have the inboard option of the Kona One (in some cases).
Personally, I have a modern FW with the same "no option strap inserts" as they all do. And I can get in them the same as other big guys, we're all using big sails.
But the CarbOne is a longboard and it will be sailed in a wider range of conditions than a FW... and that's why I'd like the strap options. And I want to sell them to different sized people, sailing in a variety of wind conditions. It's not a big deal, I won't return my board because of it.. all is good. Just an explanation, to give another perspective 
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Greg
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84 |
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Awalkspoiled
Joined: 21 Sep 2013
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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My CarbOne has a LOT of range in strap positions fore and aft, which for me at 230lb is much more important than in and outboard. Except in overpowering conditions my forward straps are well forward and as soon as I’m planing I can slide in. If there’s enough power to plane there’s enough heeling moment from the fin to keep me level even with my heel curled over the toprail. That forward strap also serves for my back foot on the rare occasions when I’m really powered up but have the track forward and the centerboard down, with my front foot pretty much standing on the side of the board and pointing forward. It’s not the locked-in railed-up position of older slab-sided raceboards, but it’s functional.
I don’t miss inboard positions because I wouldn’t use them except perhaps for wave riding and anything which helps reduce the overall weight is fine with me (my board is nowhere near the listed spec weight either, by the way). If I’m fooling around on swells I have my back foot out of the straps anyway. |
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Awalkspoiled wrote: | My CarbOne has a LOT of range in strap positions fore and aft, which for me at 230lb is much more important than in and outboard. Except in overpowering conditions my forward straps are well forward and as soon as I’m planing I can slide in. If there’s enough power to plane there’s enough heeling moment from the fin to keep me level even with my heel curled over the toprail. That forward strap also serves for my back foot on the rare occasions when I’m really powered up but have the track forward and the centerboard down, with my front foot pretty much standing on the side of the board and pointing forward. It’s not the locked-in railed-up position of older slab-sided raceboards, but it’s functional.
I don’t miss inboard positions because I wouldn’t use them except perhaps for wave riding and anything which helps reduce the overall weight is fine with me (my board is nowhere near the listed spec weight either, by the way). If I’m fooling around on swells I have my back foot out of the straps anyway. |
Thanks for the added info about your board weight being way over spec.
I've been promoting Kona in my area for a long time (not on the payroll or anything, I'm just a fan of their product and their company attitude).
Anyway, there's always room for improvement... so I look at their products with a critical eye. I like all the great things and talk about all the positives. But there could be a few improvements... not in the One design board, but in their other boards.
The "outboard only" strap position on the Carb One is no big deal. I just mentioned it as something I'd change, to give people an option. And I also thought about "how much weight did they save" by leaving them off? And as I mentioned, there was no info about the strap inserts in any Kona info.
But it's not a big thing... like the board weight... cause that's a bigger thing.
Anyway, I don't expect anything to change... but I will give them customer feedback... it'll make me feel better anyway, LOL
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Greg
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84 |
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brynkaufman2
Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 383
Location: Kailua Oahu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry for the delay Outhaul, it seems I stopped getting notifications of new posts on this thread.
I went with the CarbOne vs. the Exo X-Longboard because my sailing is a lot more blasting vs. wave riding, and I felt the X-Longboard is more setup for waves than blasting. While there is some crossover, I was told the CarbOne would probably plane a little sooner and I like the outboard foot strap positions on the CarbOne vs. the strap location on the X-Longboard which is more for waves. |
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