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wynsurfer
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
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 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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"Are you a politician asking what my country can do for you, or a zealous one asking what I can do for my country? If you are the former you are a parasite, and if the second you are an oasis in the desert."
Kahlil Gibran
From an open letter in Arabic titled "The New Frontier" to Lebanese parliamentarians in 1925 following the fall of the Ottoman Empire. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| slinky wrote: | "Are you a politician asking what my country can do for you, or a zealous one asking what I can do for my country? If you are the former you are a parasite, and if the second you are an oasis in the desert."
Kahlil Gibran
From an open letter in Arabic titled "The New Frontier" to Lebanese parliamentarians in 1925 following the fall of the Ottoman Empire. |
can you back up your source of this American Poets quote?
Here is what I found that the new translation came well after Kennedys death in a book. and found no credible source with the aribic words and then a translation. I would have thrown it into a todays translator if it was. But again found no credible source.
If this is correct, that is how low right wingers you listen too will go to defame an American war hero. How many hours did he drag/save when his boat was sunk? Maybe you should get away from Fox for a few months to clear your brain..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Khalil_Gibran#Parts_of_Kennedy_speech_possibly_but_not_likely_inspired_by_Gibran
| Quote: | Parts of Kennedy speech possibly but not likely inspired by Gibran[edit]
I have just removed these lines form the article:
Gibran also inspired John F. Kennedy's often quoted sentence in the 1961 inaugural address with his 1925 article, "The New Frontier," which contained the epigrammatic : "Are you a politician asking what your country can do for you or a zealous one asking what you can do for your country? If you are the first, then you are a parasite; if the second, then you are an oasis in a desert."[citation needed]
The idea that the phrasing of JFK's Inaugural speech was inspired by lines from Gibran has appeared more and more prominently on the internet, and I just noticed that it has been placed here. Tracing a few facts a couple years ago at Wikiquote led me to reject that claim, and I am posting some dialogue between myself and anonymous IP that occurred on Wikiquote's JFK talk page in 2005 here:
"Ask not..."
When Kennedy said in his 1961 inaugural speech, "ask not what your country can do for you --ask what you can do for your country." He was quoting Lebanese-American writer Khalil Gibran. Khalil Gibran is the one who wrote this famous saying! How come Khalil Gibran never gets aknowledged for making this great saying?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.143.213 (talk • contribs)
Reply:
It has been reported at various places on the internet that in JFK's Inaugural address, the famous line "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", was inspired by, or even a direct quotation of the famous and much esteemed writer and poet Khalil Gibran. Gibran in 1925 wrote in Arabic a line that has been translated as:
Are you a politician asking what your country can do for you or a zealous one asking what you can do for your country?
If you are the first, then you are a parasite; if the second, then you are an oasis in a desert.
However, this translation of Gibran is one that occurred over a decade after Kennedy's 1961 speech, appearing in A Third Treasury of Kahlil Gibran (1975) edited by Andrew Dib Sherfan, and the translator most likely drew upon Kennedy's famous words in expressing Gibran's prior ideas. A translation by Anthony R. Ferris in The Voice of the Master (1958) exists that could conceivably have been used as an inspiration, but it is less strikingly similar:
Are you a politician who says to himself: "I will use my country for my own benefit"? If so, you are naught but a parasite living on the flesh of others. Or are you a devoted patriot, who whispers into the ear of his inner self: "I love to serve my country as a faithful servant." If so, you are an oasis in the desert, ready to quench the thirst of the wayfarer.
The title of Gibran's essay has been translated as The New Deal, or The New Frontier.
Other even earlier occurences of similar expressions or ideas are also known to exist, and have sometimes been cited as possible sources of inspiration:
It is now the moment when by common consent we pause to become conscious of our national life and to rejoice in it, to recall what our country has done for each of us, and to ask ourselves what we can do for our country in return. ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., Memorial Day speech in Keene, New Hampshire (30 May 1884)
As has often been said, the youth who loves his Alma Mater will always ask, not "What can she do for me?" but "What can I do for her?" ~ Lee Baron Russel Briggs, in "College Life", Routine and Ideals (1904)
In the great fulfillment we must have a citizenship less concerned about what the government can do for it, and more anxious about what it can do for the nation. ~ Warren G. Harding Speech at the Republican National Convention, Chicago, Illinois (7 June, 1916)
Occasionally it has also been stated that JFK was quoting, paraphrasing, or adapting a statement of the ancient Roman orator Cicero, but with no example provided, and research done for Wikiquote as yet indicates no clear sources or definite citations as to when or where Cicero made any such expressions. ~ Kalki 22:33, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
the later translation that this comes from.
http://leb.net/gibran/works/frontier.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Torpedo_Boat_PT-109
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
Last edited by real-human on Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| real-human wrote: | | NP wrote: | | real-human wrote: | | Quote: | NP
Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Posts: 1715
New postPosted: 14 Jun 2016 15:01 Post subject: Reply with quote
If good people stay silent then we have to listen to XXXX-XXXX blather on with redundant nonsense.
NP |
troll post....
redundant hate by NP.. who wants to silence me... |
LOL! Hate? Na, don't flatter yourself. As for silence, I think just about everyone on here has basically told you to shut up in one way or another. |
so your non-denial denial is yes you are trying to silence me even with your cry baby I think everyone wants to shut me up.
Are you that stupid.....
Hey Mr. Canadian, still thinking of loading up the van with fertilizer and driving to the USA like McVeigh? And in reality wasn't that a threat from a foreigner. You claim a joke, but again even in airports that type of sicko joke talk lands you in hot water.
and again from where I sit you were stalking me because you can not debate my points, why else would you to gather information on me and then post it on the internet. Is that what you do with friends, or is that because my points are so strong that you escalate to stalking and harassing? |
No seriously, are you going to be OK? Don't cry, it's going to be OK. |
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wynsurfer
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 940
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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real-human. i do not listen to Fox. Here is my source:
www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/07/0618/07a.shtml
You could be right I suppose but I doubt it.
Kennedy and every other president use speechwriters. i do not see this as diminishing J.F. K's greatness.
Looks to me like Princeton University is a credible source no? |
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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Princeton? Pffft, what do they know?
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wynsurfer
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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By the way Dean, i don't understand your assumption at all. Telling me I should get my head out of Fox news? Why the caustic, vitriolic comments? This man's work inspired millions including myself. I read "The Prophet" 50 years ago at the age of 14. i will never forget it. So much wisdom.
I posted this quote because in my mind this person Gibran Kahlil Gibran, who was an Arab born in Lebanaon that moved to this country with his mother at a very young age was a literary genius that left a lifelong impression on me and millions of others.
Try reading some of his work, and if you have it is obvious that you have learned nothing from them. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| slinky wrote: | By the way xxxx, i don't understand your assumption at all. Telling me I should get my head out of Fox news? Why the caustic, vitriolic comments? This man's work inspired millions including myself. I read "The Prophet" 50 years ago at the age of 14. i will never forget it. So much wisdom.
I posted this quote because in my mind this person Gibran Kahlil Gibran, who was an Arab born in Lebanaon that moved to this country with his mother at a very young age was a literary genius that left a lifelong impression on me and millions of others.
Try reading some of his work, and if you have it is obvious that you have learned nothing from them. |
awe see a troll post.... Just because I beat the piss out of your right wing piss sources you have to go McVeigh on me.
Yes his works are amazing... but as I said wherever you real source was like Fox lies and more lies you should question before you allow their propaganda, took me 1 minute to find how that one was not definitive.
Note from your source they did not say it is absolutely... The anoucenmnet is just they received a donation of books/manuscripts.... It was not a researched piece for historians.. to funny that you do not understand that.... | Quote: | | Collection of Kahlil Gibran manuscripts donated to the library |
Note they even had the intuition to leave it in grey area, and if you notice all his own sites per say have his great quotes and this is not listed as one of them on the top google returned searches for several pages.
Now again even your source is found it is not definitive, and it was not meant as a resource other than they received a collection.... IE it did not even link to the original words/source.. Maybe in those manuscripts it will have the actual words. But the ones I cited were actually a better fit and were years before he wrote his passage.
Go cry elsewhere about your quote that is not all that it can be that right wingers seen to glory over. But I believe that he may not want his great works diminished by the right wingers inacurate propaganda. Sorry it ruffled your feathers so hard, but hey go to fair and balanced landia...
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| baja, why do you keep poisoning the water with divisive nonsense? Everybody seems to be a troll to you. How do you expect to earn any respect here? |
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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| real-human wrote: | | slinky wrote: | By the way xxxx, i don't understand your assumption at all. Telling me I should get my head out of Fox news? Why the caustic, vitriolic comments? This man's work inspired millions including myself. I read "The Prophet" 50 years ago at the age of 14. i will never forget it. So much wisdom.
I posted this quote because in my mind this person Gibran Kahlil Gibran, who was an Arab born in Lebanaon that moved to this country with his mother at a very young age was a literary genius that left a lifelong impression on me and millions of others.
Try reading some of his work, and if you have it is obvious that you have learned nothing from them. |
awe see a troll post.... Just because I beat the piss out of your right wing piss sources you have to go McVeigh on me.
Yes his works are amazing... but as I said wherever you real source was like Fox lies and more lies you should question before you allow their propaganda, took me 1 minute to find how that one was not definitive.
Note from your source they did not say it is absolutely... The anoucenmnet is just they received a donation of books/manuscripts.... It was not a researched piece for historians.. to funny that you do not understand that.... | Quote: | | Collection of Kahlil Gibran manuscripts donated to the library |
Note they even had the intuition to leave it in grey area, and if you notice all his own sites per say have his great quotes and this is not listed as one of them on the top google returned searches for several pages.
Now again even your source is found it is not definitive, and it was not meant as a resource other than they received a collection.... IE it did not even link to the original words/source.. Maybe in those manuscripts it will have the actual words. But the ones I cited were actually a better fit and were years before he wrote his passage.
Go cry elsewhere about your quote that is not all that it can be that right wingers seen to glory over. But I believe that he may not want his great works diminished by the right wingers inacurate propaganda. Sorry it ruffled your feathers so hard, but hey go to fair and balanced landia... |
Rolling on the floor laughing!!!! You can't even imagine that such a person exists. Dude you beat the piss out of yourself. |
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wynsurfer
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Princeton University was my only source. I do not consider it to be a "right wing piss source", and I doubt any rational human being would. You are delusional at best. Tilting at windmills are we? Nobody is crying here except you. Get help!
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