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85 litre board for the gorge
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3734
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, before going further, aging and slowness, weight and knowledge, applies to ME also.
Whereas before, like 30 year's ago, I could put up with nuke and puke on a 72 liter wave board. Now, I've learned that solid winds do exist, and who want's to slog/backwind between gusts of overpowered scared?
As for the reason FSW might not be the best for everyone, they actually go pretty darn fast when powered, and sometimes keep up with dedicated slalom sailors. Not the best board for negotiating big swells, chop, and slashing. Too fast in powered up winds and confused chop can be almost as bad as underpowered nuke and puke.
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 445

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To each his own......No one is talking a 90 litre board w/powered up winds....

KMF
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3734
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

90 liter wave, 85 liter FSW, is 5 liter's off float difference.
And nobody makes exactly 90 liter's anyways, as it's a guess from the final prototype, which could have added, or subtracted volume before it goes into the first mold.
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the OP has enough info to make an informed decision. Let`s end this thread before isobars chimes in again and starts a 10 page troll fest Very Happy
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biffmalibu



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 396

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody is sailing small polyester boards in the Gorge today. If you get blown off the water on your Chinese "neo-spoon", there are several available on Gorge.net classifieds.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18377

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philodog wrote:
I think the OP has enough info to make an informed decision. Let`s end this thread before isobars chimes in again and starts a 10 page troll fest Very Happy

The trolls, not I, are responsible for that.

My comments on the whole thread include:

The 24-hour ebb is a localized phenomenon; it doesn't apply at some venues where the river is much wider and deeper and never apples to easterlies ... a 24-hour flood because the are sailable only in the western Gorge.

I go to bigger (85, 90, 95) boards for any of several reasons, including wide wind shadows, holey winds even on the outside, dusk, old forearm tendons, fatigue, winds I don't trust, having to use sails too big (such as 5.7 or 6.2) for most 80s, suspecting the wind will turn side-off in the evening, etc. The extra flotation is my friend if the chop's not too bad, and very often gives me the whole river to myself while everyone else is trying to force-fit a series of tiny sails and tiny boards into big-board/big-sail conditions. As long as the chop is not too bad, I still use that same board VERY often in those conditions ... them on 4.2s and 4.7s and 80L, me on 5.7 or 6.2 and 96L ... them re-rigging several times or giving up, me carving up swell on one rig the entire time. Sometimes the whole DAY goes like that, as the wind averages swing wildly between 20 and 30 mph every few minutes. IMO, the optimal rig for that crap is 96L and 5.7 sq meters. Hell, yes, it's overpowered in a beam reach at times, but long rips way upwind and dead downwind make lemonade out of that lemon and beat the hell out of rerigging.

My first session on my 96 litre "wavy" Mistral Shift in 2003 was vastly overpowered on a 3.7, simply because the swim when the wind slams shut at that location can be a kilometer; the extra 30 liters MIGHT convert that swim to a slog. It was worth the handicap

I've finally sold all my polyester sinkers, but only after learning to control lighter sinkers in big conditions. That took me many years of extensive high-wind TOW, a luxury seldom available to occasional high-wind sailors.

I prefer wave to FSW boards because my first priority is instantaneous maneuverability in either direction at full speed and full power. Sure, my JPFSW did that well, but not quite as well as wave boards. Among the dozen or so reasons I rig bigger than most sailors is that one key to boat speed, upwind ability, earlier planing, and planing downwind on a wave board is lots of power. I could get by with less power on my JPFSW, but at the cost of my top priority. Speed is also important to me, but I can pass most -- definitely not all but who cares -- sailors on most of my wave boards and still maintain the wave board maneuverability. Like everything else, it's all about personal choices and circumstances.

And I agree, Craig, that quads and my heavy back foot style are not an optimal match. Even solid water feels like foam just when I push hardest on the back end.
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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1394
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philodog wrote:
As for that other 5% of riders, those are the ones at Kodak Point with lots of stickers on their sails. And dollars to donuts in 85 liter wind they are on freestyle boards which carve like barges, not wave boards. Their skills ( and the fact that freestyle boards plane effortlessly) just make their swell riding look effortless.


I've had some 85-90l freestyle boards that carve great and have been my ideal board for riding swell and slashing chopswell. Like a FSW, they are flatter rockered so they plane early and stay planing on a swell even if it is not that steep. I find the set back stance and mast track position also make it easy to lever the rig forward to engage the nose and rail when you need to stay on the swell. The far aft position of the fin combined with its small size also make it a dream for slashing off the back foot.

of course some FS boards carve like barges (as do some FSWs).

I find this particularly true in the lighter winds the OP was referencing when the swell is often not as steep and you're riding the board flatter. when it's nuking and swells are jacking up and getting really steep, you tend to ride the swells a little more rail to rail and is also when you need a little more nose rocker to prevent purling.

of course, YMMV

Interesting that a lot of the more modern wave board designs are going toward a further back stance and lower rockers. The banana rocker designs from 5 or 6 years ago seem to be less common now.

Will be bringing both up to the Gorge this summer... along w/ a nuke board, of course.

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Kevin Kan
Sunset Sailboards, San Francisco CA
http://www.sunsetsailboards.com
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PeterRhonda



Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the same board range Rhonda uses a Goya Custom Quad 72 as her small board - up from her previous 68 because of of its waviness. Her big board is a Fanatic FreeWave 86 from the Gorge Surf Shop. It's a perfect lighter wind Gorge board as it has the float to get through the lulls and planes up quickly. She sets it up as a tri for the summer and moves to a bigger single fin for Stevenson easterlies. Perfect.
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin, I agree completely on the versatility of Freestyle boards. Personally I use a 90L JP Freestyle w/18 cm fin the majority of the time. It planes fine in 18 mph on a 4.7 and is a blast in small swell. I am actually bummed when I have to go to my small board (75L Fanatic Freewave). But the tiny fin and hard carving make it hard for non freestyle sailors to get used to hence my recommendation for FSWs . Do you find the Fanatic Freestyles to carve easier and what do you use for a small sail board? I`m not too happy with the 75L Freewave`s freestyle ability.
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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1394
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can't speak to the JP 90... which year is it? I rode last year's 92 a little bit. FYI, my 2016 Skate 86 TE and 2015 Skate 85 TEs felt closer to 90 liters and bigger than the 2012 and 2013 Skate 89 TEs. All boards are about 60cm wide. For me this is a magic width... too wide and the board loses a lot of sensitivity to foot steering.

Anyway, my Skate 85/86 are really fun carving boards... I still like to do carving freestyle and one of my favorite things is a tight carving hoss tack... also still addicted to downwind carve 360s after all these years... and is there anything better than a really good jibe?

One of my customers who does zero freestyle just got a Skate 85 and he just puts a bigger fin in it... the stock fin is pretty small (17.5 with not that much area). I use an aftermarket fin of the same span but more area (MUF Style Pro).

Going narrower is nice too when the wind picks up. I also have an older Fanatic FreeWave 75... sounds like the same generation as your board? (previous generations were 77/78 and the latest generation is a 76). It's a nice board for back and forth blasting and has a nice back foot slash... but it's not that great for actual freestyle. The board just feels really long and stretched out. I have to run the mast track way back in this board for the stance to feel normal for some freestyle stuff. It's good for jumps and loops and shove its... and you can do spocks and stuff on it... it just feels a little foreign. I brought it to the gorge last year along with my 85 Skate and the two were a good combo size wise. This year I'll bring my Skate 86 and Goya Quad 86 (two boards that sail quite differently) and maybe an old AHD nuke board or the FreeWave 75.

Wish they made an 80l Skate at about 58cm wide... that would be really fun up there.

FYI, I'm about 190lbs

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Kevin Kan
Sunset Sailboards, San Francisco CA
http://www.sunsetsailboards.com
https://www.instagram.com/sunsetsailboards
http://www.facebook.com/sunsetsailboards
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