Long thin vs. short wide boards. Which is better for me?

GURGLETROUSERS · Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 2643

I'm sorry, but I just don't get this!

Why buy an expensive top of the range longboard and immediately discard the dagger, the very thing that gives it its superior upwind ability, at SPEED.

We, are currently in a three day glorious summer heatwave, with solid gentle sea breezes of about 8 knots. Yesterday, I took my kona with a small 5.5 sail, to a 'difficult' group of islands (the Farnes, of Grace Darling fame) with severe tide races and reefs, and standing waves of general lumpiness. (A bit like river rapids over shallow rocks.) It is an area of natural wildlife with thousands of birds and seals.

There was no planing but the easy to control in the general mayhem 5.5 had sufficient pull to head where I wished, including 'ferry gliding' across the severe parts, with the board bucking and plunging and turning (or trying to) in the confusion. THAT'S where the dagger board is invaluable! I was tired after 3 hours of it, but the satisfaction was immense. The board went where I made it do so.

To many, obsessed as they are with planing and technique, this may not sound like windsurfing, but after over 30 years of all the usual stuff, this was outstanding, and what the sea is all about.(Longboard or sea kayak in such settings-either rings my bell!

After all, if you are going to do tricky stuff, it ought to have some purpose, and not just be an end in itself. Millions of words on how to gibe correctly (little finger angle included, no doubt, but no point to it all!!

Baaaa! (Sheep noise.)

joethewindsufa · Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 1190 Location: Montréal

based on this discussion, I sealed up the the centre board area with waterproof gorilla tape - after having removed the centreboard on my Mistral Equipe II XR.
ironically, the board felt lighter than ever...
i NEVER anticipated that the carbon dagger added noticeable weight

that day winds were 20-40 kph and with a SpeedFreak 8.5 I was flying
there was NO need for the dagger on this day

i like the idea of making the decision based on weather and plans as to whether to "bother" with the centre board

thanks for that !!

techno900 · Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161

Sorry, I don't get it. I had an Equipe II XR that I raced for years. That was probably the best race board ever made and it could blow away most intermediate short board sailors in 20 knot winds - WITH THE DAGGERBOARD - up of course.

if you want to go fast, it's more about skill than removing the dagger.

gvogelsang · Joined: 09 Nov 1988 Posts: 435

I always thought that it was kind of fun to put the dagger board down, bury the leeward rail, and rocket up wind in 12 - 14, or maybe a bit more.

Maybe that comes from the dingy boat sailing background.

Mgoetz · Joined: 06 Jun 1997 Posts: 53

I sail my Kona One from a beach that typically has side off conditions so the dagger board makes a big difference in getting back in - not that it couldn't be done without it but with it down, I can sail back, say, in 2 tacks instead of 6. But I also have had trouble getting the dagger board to break the seal of the gasket. When it's fully retracted, that knob is too hard to move with my heel or clenched toes. Sometimes I can reach down with one hand and get it started but too often I end up dropping the sail. I tried drilling a hole in the meaty part of that knob and threaded a downhaul line through it with the idea of making a loop that I could stick my foot through to better yank back on the dagger board. The line went through soft plastic tubing to make it easier to get my foot inside while sailing. Didn't work out so well as the loop laid flat on the board instead in an upright position.

AG80 · Joined: 04 Mar 2014 Posts: 39

I will join the pro-dagger comments. I enjoy sailing my Phantom 320 in 5-10 mph winds with the daggerboard down and "riding the rail". Completely different feel than just the gliding sensation with the dagger up in light wind. If the wind picks up, I have the option of kicking the dagger up and planning on the Phantom or changing to my short board. I also question the logic of buying such an expensive board and not using it to its full potential.

This video shows just what I mean when railing the board in light wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33vlQtUS40

Xxwindsurfer · Joined: 17 Feb 2015 Posts: 45

I agree that a dagger board can be useful in sub - planing wind even on a reach. I sail a Kona One and have found that in sub planing wind it can feel much better sailing on a reach with the dagger half way down- I always feel as though it gives me something to push against, somehow seems more stable and comfortable in the harness.
I have no idea why.

joethewindsufa · Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 1190 Location: Montréal

windward1 · Joined: 18 Jun 2000 Posts: 1400

Xxwindsurfer wrote:

"I have no idea why."

Here is why:

The Center of Lateral Resistance (COR) with the daggerboard up is defined by the area of the cross section of the board (hull) that is in the water and by the fin. The board amount in the water varies as it pitches moving along its track. Thus the COR moves around and has to be compensated for by the sailor moving the sail around to keep the Center of Effort (COE) in balance. (If not in balance the board turns. Thus directional stability is affected.)

With the centerboard down, or partially so, the centerboard becomes a big part of the COR and it is in one place and is always in the water. Voila! The COR is stabilized and the sailor can pretty much hold one position, balanced and relaxed and the board tracks in a straight line very well and very smooth.

W1