Long thin vs. short wide boards. Which is better for me?

[brynkaufman2]

I need a new board now!

Two I am considering are the Kona CarbOne and the Carve 161.

I am trying to understand the differences of these two boards, as one is very long and narrow, and one is shorter and wider.

I will use it mainly for blasting in choppy water. I want a board that has excellent control in the chop so I can take it up to a fast speed without feeling out of control.

I also want the ability to plane in light wind. Once in while I will ride swells or very slow breaking waves, but I already have a dedicated wave riding WindSUP for days when I just want to play in the waves.

Which one planes earlier? Which ones goes faster in choppy conditions? Which one will be more fun?

I am 165lbs and run with a 7.5 sail most of the time, 6.5 on the higher wind days.

I am leaning towards the Kona CarbOne. The reason is at 220l it might plane sooner in light wind and it might track better if not planing.

Also, the Carve looks like a board that will go airborne easier, which in chop means I start to lose control faster and therefore have to slow down a bit to stay on the water and in control.

The Kona CarbOne might have better up upwind ability, and with the dagger down would definitely have it, although I find dagger boards sometimes just get in the way and add weight so I have mixed feelings about it.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[brynkaufman2]

I realize most have not sailed both boards, but if you have sailed either, or sailed a similar board like the Carve, please chime in.

[GURGLETROUSERS]

The Kona and the Carve 160 are two different concepts. For comparison, I have a standard Kona and an older Bic Techno 2 160 litre.

The short and wide 160 (similar to the Carve) is, with 50 fin and 7.0 to8.0 sails an early planing lighter wind blaster, similar in feel to normal lower volume planing boards, albeit while feeling a bit less throwabout and agile. It does NOT fare well in higher wind severe chop type conditions, so really only has a relatively limited range of usage.Neither is it any fun if off the plane. The difference is marked.

The longboard Kona has a much greater range of usage, but feels less lively owing to its sheer size, though the step tail does go a long way to making it fun.

If the wind is light and the chop not big,and all you wish to do is blast back and forth, the short wide 160 will be fine. But if you require more than just that, the Kona (especially the Carbone) will be better!

[brynkaufman2]

Interesting comparison. It is still a difficult decision. I hear what you are saying, but I am not sure if my chop is considered big, or how bad the 160 would actually handle in it, and also how easy it is to get the CarbOne on a plane.

I would be disappointed if it is harder to plane than my previous board, an Exocet WindSUP 10. It is longer, not as wide, and has more volume, which I am hoping would make it easier to get on a plane than the WindSUP.

Even if it was equal I would be satisfied, but if it is harder I would get frustrated on the light wind days where I think I should be going and I am not.

So I am still leaning towards the CarbOne, but would love to know I am not going to be frustrated on those light wind days.

I think I read in a thread the 11'8 WindSUP planes up faster than the Kona One, but I had the WindSUP 10', not the 11'8, and this is the CarbOne which is supposed to plane sooner than the Kona One.

I know a higher volume board makes it easier to plane, as I see people on smaller boards having trouble planing in light winds when my 175l can get on a plane.

However, I am not sure what the limit is in liters. My WindSUP 10 is 175l liters, and the CarbOne is 220l, so does that mean it will plane faster than a 175l board, or have I crossed the thresh hold where the larger board actually becomes more difficult to get on a plane. This is assuming the same fin and sail size.

[U2U2U2]

I fail to see the attraction to the Kona , with centerboard, over a windsurf board so I'm already biased.
FWIW, similar weight, I use a BIC SUP, modified with a mast track,to wind sup.
It doesn't plane, don't think it can, no straps, I use 4.2 ..6.0, to gain some time on the water when it's not windy enough to go out and plane on my windsurf gear. I luv it, it gets me on the water.

So I would get the windsurf board, ESP since you have a sup already if I read that correctly.

Comments : I would not restrict my limits to the Carve, the size 161 is huge,
You could easily go down several sizes and stay within a reasonable limit given your 7.5 ,,6.5.
You may be ideally suited to the wide thin boards, like Tabou Rocket Wide, Naish Starship, Goya Bolt...etc...

My take ..which is mostly outside the box

[brynkaufman2]

Thanks U2, the center board is kind of a negative for me too. They seem to be a lot of problems.

My BIC WindSUP 10'6 is my dedicated wave board. The three fin setup and no foot straps make for a great wave catching machine with a sail and with a paddle.

To me the attraction of this new board is which one planes sooner, and which one handles the chop better, allowing me to go faster in the choppy conditions.

If I go down in size, I believe my early planing threshold will rise, and I still really enjoy blasting on light wind days when many with smaller boards do not even bother going out.

Also, and maybe it was the board I had, but I found a smaller board bounces around more in the chop, thereby I had to take my foot off the gas to stay in control, where the big long boards seem to handle the chop well so I can give it as much power as my sail can deliver.

The reason I am thinking about the Carve 161 is I am hoping the extra volume planes earlier and handles the chop better than the smaller board. I am finding at my location you don't really sacrifice much in top speed with a larger board as you might at a more flat water location. I have seen a guy with a big Exocet board keep up with a guy on the Naish Bullet in good wind conditions.

[NOVAAN]

Your first miss conception is that volume gets you planning sooner. It does not. Its a measurement of the amount of float a board has. How wide a board is has more to do with planning than volume. Other factors are body weight, sail size, sail tuning and your skill level. Long narrow boards glide better in sub planning mode. Wide boards do not glide well. They do get on a plane quicker. I'm 165lbs. If the wind is averaging 15mph and fairly steady
I use a 6.5 and a JP magic ride 104. Once up on a plane it will smoke any of the boards your talking about. A Tabou Rocket 115/125 would be another good choice. Sub planning these boards will get you home because they have enough float to do so. Once the wind drops below the planning threshold, the long boards will glide faster but not plan quicker. SOOOO The answer is have two boards if you must get everything out of the wind at your spot. If your looking to advance your skills go with a "short board" and be sure to rig enough sail to have the power you need to plane.

[NOVAAN]

I agree with u2u2u2 in that a carve 161 is a huge board and not the best choice for "choppy" water. Think smaller. It might challenge your skills a bit but that is what will make you a better windsurfer. At my local lake, I often use a 96 liter Tabou 3s with a 6.5 if the wind picks up or the water gets ruff.

[brynkaufman2]

Thanks Novaan, two boards is a possibility I guess.

The 104 board would not work well on most days at my location. I rarely see boards that small. They only come out on the very windy days, perhaps 1 to 2 times per month. If you are sailing on a 104 frequently than your location has higher winds more often than where I sail, or perhaps the water is flatter which might allow for easier planing.

It seems to me volume could matter, especially for heavier riders. For example, the CarbOne is 70cm wide, the Rocket 135 is 72cm wide. If you just go by the width of the board, then the Rocket will plane sooner than the CarbOne as it is a wider board. However, depending the riders weight, I don't think a 135l board will plane first. The board sinks more because of less volume, which makes it harder to get started. As mentioned, the heavier the rider, the more this would be a factor.

So my concern with these smaller boards is my wind minimum to plane will go up so many days I won't be able to go out, where I have normally had a great time in the past with my big Exocet WindSUP 10.

I actually like the light wind planing as the water is not as choppy so it is still a lot of fun.

[U2U2U2]

There are many features , parts of the board that play into how it sails.

Rider weight being just one, along with width, length, volume, BOTTOM shape, rail shape, type sail , weight of sail, weight of boom mast, experience level, FIN, placement of footsteps, mast , boom height.

The Tabou vs CarbOne, first to plane? Is that what matters or say how it handles the conditions once powered up planing along.
These 2 are apples and oranges. If earliest planing without going to a specialist board ...is going to be the freemove group, of thin, wide and compact, as RRD FIREMOVE , JP Magic ride, Tabou Rocket wide.. Many more..

Where DO you sail?