Sheeting sensitivity

grantmac017 · Joined: 04 Aug 2016 Posts: 946

I had a second session with my new to me Retro 7.5, I was just barely planing in the gusts so clearly I wasn't overpowered. I was down hauled to the higher wind setting and had quite a bit of outhaul because the sail just seemed very hard to control, plus I was having batten rotation issues when I ran less outhaul previously (maybe too little downhaul then?).
It felt like it had a very narrow range of correct sheeting angle so to speak and would back wind very abruptly when close hauled.

Should I have run less outhaul to get more draft in the sail? Is there anything that can promote batten rotation when running less tension in the sail?

U2U2U2 · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:31 am Post subject:

Less d/h would mean the battens would be even harder to rotate.

Less o/h , would create a deeper draft.

You stated control issues, without being overpowered .

A number of things could or do come into play, the mast in use, possibly too soft..or not.
The sail design itself 'could' offer some awkward rotation, Sailworks lovers, I don't say it does .

When doing a tack on this type sail, when it's not powdered up I think some batten rotation stickeeeeness can occur. Has for me on Cheetahs.
This can be tweaked by the O/H n D/H .
Generally I set the down haul, and allow for outhaul to be moved as the conditions prevail.

If you have a correct mast bend, look elsewhere for a solution, to at least help

Darbonne · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:31 am Post subject:

There is a lot of information available on the net about rigging the Retro. I have a Retro 9.0, and I have found that if the battens don't rotate you need more DH. There are a lot of opinions about DH and OH adjustments on various sails. I like to stick to the manufacturers recommendations.

http://www.sailworks.com/retro-rigging

cgoudie1 · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Sheeting sensitivity

Hmmm,

"clearly I wasn't overpowered. I was down hauled to the higher wind setting and had quite a bit of outhaul because the sail just seemed very hard to control,"

This sounds like classic too much outhaul making the sail twichy and powerless. It could be a bad mast match also, but Sailworks sails are
pretty forgiving of bad mast matches. Were there diagonal wrinkles
across your sail (a sign of too much outhaul)? The Sailworks rigging guide
is a good place to start. http://www.sailworks.com/retro-rigging

Also, if your battens won't rotate, you don't have nearly enough downhaul
(and a 10 year old sail probably has stretched some).

I mention this, because I own Sailworks Retros in larger sizes
(5.5, 6.5, 9.5), and for me they are:

A. More stable than other sails of the same size.
B. Have more range than Sails of the same size
C. Pull on the low end like a freight train

Since these are exactly opposite to the attributes you felt, something is way
off in the rig. Could you maybe put up a picture of the sail rigged as you rode it lying on the beach (or in your backyard). That might help us understand what is going on.

Also, give me a little more description of "very hard to control", if possible.

-Craig

konajoe · Joined: 28 Feb 2010 Posts: 517

grantmac017 · Joined: 04 Aug 2016 Posts: 946

Can having the sail too flat cause sheeting to be very "on-off"? Because it seems in retrospect that I was rigged far too flat, batten above boom was clear of the mast. I was having rotation issues on my first ride with this sail when I rigged the batten half way across the mast but that was in very light conditions. There was no issue yesterday since I was DH/OH to the max but the power wasn't very constant.
My sheeting angle for any given point of sail seemed large and I lost power quickly in the lulls.
The only wrinkles I noticed were the ones mentioned in the rigging guide.
Having looked at a few setup guides/videos it seems I need to focus on getting the batten above the boom in the correct position. But even with virtually nil OH I don't see what I'd call a large belly in the sail and from what I understand the Retro needs positive OH tension to perform.

On the plus side I finally managed a number of beach starts which is a first.

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

Brian.bigfella@gmail.com · Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 127

You may want to seriously consider an adjustable outhaul. From my limited experience with a Retro you can give them a ton of downhaul and adjust the outhaul a great deal without any real negative consequences.

LeeD · Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 1175

In a purely theoritical discussion, wouldn't the application of full downhaul cause the sail to twist off more, the distance between tip of mast and tack shorter, so more wind is needed?
And wouldn't an adjustable outhaul, which can pull the clew TIGHT, tighten the leech some, giving LESS twist in higher winds?
And wouldn't an adjustable outhaul, which can loosen the clew tension, while providing a deeper belly in the lower part of the sail, also LOOSEN the roach, thus giving MORE twist, which would spill more wind, which needs more wind?
Seems to me, except for course slalom conditions where deep broad reaching is encountered, the need for adjustable outhaul is less than advertised.

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

Bill Hansen of Windwing used AOs even on his smallest sails ... in the surf. I sometimes manually adjust my outhauls when most other sailors go ashore to re-rig. And I run downwind for hundreds of yards dozens of times every session on the river -- even where there's no perceptible current. AOs are often handy; I would use them to my advantage very often if I were willing to fool with them.