Getting backwinded during jibe

marc5 · Joined: 21 Oct 2015 Posts: 60 Location: SW Ohio

Riding my RRD Firemove 122 in nice flat-water 7.0 or 6.2 conditions...
Powered up, entering the jibe with a lot of speed, turning downwind and starting to jibe the sail (sail-first ie strap-to-strap jibe), sometimes I have so much speed that the sail gets backwinded. In other words, the apparent wind moves to the front of the board. This makes my usual sail spin (push/pull) difficult. How do you guys handle this? I suppose I could delay the sail spin, but that defeats the purpose of an early sail-first jibe.

This board is really fun to jibe fast, but backwinding is getting in the way!
Thoughts? Thanks.

manuel · Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 1158

Same thing happens to me surf sailing in light winds.
For the jibe, I would try to flip the sail earlier by pushing hard on that back hand.

LUCARO · Joined: 07 Dec 1997 Posts: 661

Hi Marc

Have you tried oversheeting as you turn into the gybe so the clew of your sail is against your shin and you sail is not exposed to this "apparent wind"?

I believe it is discussed here

http://boardsurfr.blogspot.com/2014/04/put-it-behind-you.html

boardsurfr · Joined: 23 Aug 2001 Posts: 1266

In a typical jibe, we slow down to less than wind speed, so the wind comes from the back during the sail flip. That allows us to flip the sail in a circular motion.

With a big board on flat water in lighter wind, it's easy to go at 1.5 times wind speed; the fastest guys can reach 2x wind speed. With a good jibe entry, you can carry almost all of that speed to downwind. Obviously, the normal sail flip does not work anymore - as soon as you push with your back hand, you get backwinded.

The solution is to do a sail flip that's similar to the sail flip in a heli tack, where you also have apparent wind coming from the front. When it's time to flip, slice the sail forward without any power in the sail. This is a mast hand dominated move, without any pushing with the back hand. The sail is completely neutral and depowered. You want to get the center of effort in front of your body.

To start the sail rotation, briefly push with your backhand, and pull with your front hand. The natural tendency here is to resist with the front hand - don't! You use the backwinding to rotate the sail 180 degrees for you. You hold on with the clew hand now, the front hand slides all the way to the mast for the second half of the sail rotation. This only works if sliced the sail forward enough. Normally, you step as the sail starts to flip. You can probably do it as a sail-first jibe and step later, but going with the sail is more natural.

Since you're still going fast after the first half of the sail rotation, complete the sail rotation right away - don't sail out clew first (that's the thing to do if you loose a lot of speed in the jibe).

The key thing is to slice the sail forward, and to let the apparent wind flip your sail without resisting it. The better your sails depowers, the better this works. If you're on a cambered sail, the slicing part becomes harder. I think the same principle still applies, it's just harder to do. Seems slalom guys slow down to wind speed before flipping most of the time.

PeconicPuffin · Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 1830

If you've got that much speed there are a few things you can do for fun:

1. Try the Flip Jibe. Which is going around the mast as if you were tacking...the sail never actually flips (if you ever ice-sail, it's the only way to jibe.)

2. Try duck jibing. This will require deft sail control (essentially the sail control in a duck tack) but it's doable.

Otherwise as previously mentioned: slice the mast (sail luffed) forward, then push clew through like a helitack or upwind 360.

NOVAAN · Joined: 28 Sep 1994 Posts: 1549

This can happen when your at top speed entering the turn. Most people look for a smooth spot near the shore to make the turn. That also means lite wind or even a change of wind direction. Its like hitting a wall when you sheet the sail out. I try to look for a windy spot to make turns. If you make a good turn in the wind, you have a better chance of keeping your speed on exit and the sail flip should be effort less.. If, when you crash you have wind to water start.

dllee · Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 5329 Location: East Bay

Also, try to time your jibe initiation during a GUST of wind, not a lull. The gust keep the wind on the same side of the sail, while a lull is like a vacuum where you exceed the wind to get backwinded.
Sheet in hard, knife through the jibe, then quickly flip the sail.

PeconicPuffin · Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 1830

DanWeiss · Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Posts: 2296 Location: Connecticut, USA

Congratulations. You've now reached the stage of ripping a tighter jibe. That may solve your problems.

marc5 · Joined: 21 Oct 2015 Posts: 60 Location: SW Ohio

Thanks, guys! All great ideas. Yes, I remember it happening on light surf sailing days on Lake Michigan and Maui, sliding down a swell. Now with my wider faster board it happens on flat water. And yes, Novaan, guilty as charged--haha! It often happens during a hero jibe near the beach where the water is like glass but the wind is light! I like the "slice" ideas. Had to look at some heli tack videos to get the motion. I will try tomorrow.

Thanks again!

Marc