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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
There is no glee.........

See above.........mindless gloating by partisans who have zero interest in improving the situation as long as their party "wins". Watch the media. For months they have been publishing stories about the huge support for Obamacare throughout the country. People with banners and at town halls shouting to retain the bill. Now they are faced with the reality that Obamacare will remain, today's banner headline on CNN "SAVING OBAMACARE IS NOW UP TO TRUMP". Obamacare needs saving!! Who knew? Why didn't they tell us this before? And meanwhile, the architects of this mess sit on the sidelines and snigger.


No glee, but there is schadenfreude. Let's look at the "whose party wins" and "it is the Democrats fault" nonsense with a few facts. From this morning's SF Chronicle.

Ryan tried to ram through a bill in 3 weeks that had neither been vetted nor worked. This is in sharp contrast to the 8 months that Pelosi spent on the ACA before calling for a vote. The bill was put together behind closed doors by such "deep thinkers" as Kevin McCarthy, and rammed through two committees on completely partisan votes without real hearings or public input. It was strikingly like mrgybe' favorite criticism of Obama, why didn't he do more while he had Congress? Legislation is hard. Health care is even harder.

The bill was dozens of votes short--Republican votes. None of the Republicans in districts that Hillary won wanted any part of it. In California that included Ed Royce, David Valdosta, Jeff Dunham, Darrell Issa, Doug LaMalfa, and Steve Knight. You might be interested in the comments of Mark Amodei of Nevada, who noted the hasty way the bill was put together and said, "I am not going to go home and tell my constituents (the legislation) is a good thing."

Mrgybe, you who have championed amateur politicians for years--take a look in the mirror. This is what amateurs do. I suspect that like any narcissist and the POTUS, you will find someone else to blame. Maybe the entitled poor?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ACA remains the law of the land. The Republicans, with total control of the House of Representatives, couldn't pull off their half-assed repeal because the replacement was absolutely terrible. That's the unvarnished truth.

mat-ty, the real obstructionists that cratered Ryan's and Trump's chances was the extreme right wing faction of the House Republicans. Democrats, on the other hand, couldn't credibly support the crappy replacement being rammed down the country's throat. Why should they? More importantly, Republicans crafted this turd on their own without seriously reaching out and working with the Democrats.

Like it or not, Donald Trump now owns the ACA because he couldn't make good on his promises to repeal and replace it. He can't blame the Democrats for his failure. A lot of the problems and negativity leveled against the ACA as it now stands is because the Republicans have worked tirelessly against it on all levels for 7 years. So all of the empty Republican talking points that the ACA is exploding is total BS. Rather than play the same crap game of blaming others, Republicans should work with Democrats to practically improve the ACA and adopt strategies that will grow participation and help push costs down over time.
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9293

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The truth is, the majority of Republicans didn't want to put people off government subsidized healthcare. Even though it's a terrible program.

They know that the media would have crucified them. Now we're stuck with the idiot's insane plan. OK, I can live with it. My health plan is grandfathered. Not Obama care.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, your health plan has to meet the standards of the ACA, or your insurance company wouldn't be able sell it to you. That said, I do understand that you don't buy it through the ACA exchanges. As coboardhead has commented on in the past, folks can still buy individual health insurance plans outside the exchanges through more classic old school insurance representatives.

So, all the BS being offered about lack of choice in some states through the exchanges, there still is lots of opportunity to buy insurance outside of the exchanges. However, it's probably safe to say that the insurance would cost you more.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac:"No glee, but there is schadenfreude."

Okay, I admit it, I had to look it up, but wasn't surprised by the definition:

Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. This word is taken from German and literally means "harm-joy". It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune. It is also borrowed by some other languages.

So have fun with your "schadenfreude", the only thing that you are joyful about is the delay of the failure of Obamacare.
"Yay, we are celebrating our eventual failure"!

Find it wherever you can I suppose. I'd need something a lot better than that to achieve some joy or misfortune of others.
You are very easily satisfied, but that's what you get when the intent is always so much more important than the results.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW--you're welcome. Pay attention and I'll get your vocabulary to high school level. Too bad you didn't really understand it.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those of you who don't understand how Trump's botching Trumcare triggers schadenfreude, remember how he claimed "I alone can fix it." https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/trump-rnc-speech-alone-fix-it/492557/

But when it came time, we found out that neither Trump nor Ryan have the fundamental political skills to think deeply about difficult problems, listen to people, cultivate allies --or count votes. When you make a claim so brash--and are hoist on your own petard--it is not really misfortune, it is incompetence.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh this is just delicious. One of those who would not have voted yes is featured: http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/watch-republicans-lost-big-on-healthcare-but-forgot-to-cancel-tv-ads-celebrating-obamacare-repeal/

Smug incompetent Republicans. How hard could governing be?
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daily for 8 years they made repealing this a cornerstone. They had years and years to come up with something. They pull the bill before a vote. Answer me this, how the hell can they work on a budget with this giant unknown?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are actually four Republican parties. They don't get along. Thank God.
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