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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11232
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wpo
North Korea fires ballistic missile ahead of G-20 summit

BY JAMES HOHMANN
with Breanne Deppisch and Joanie Greve
Quote:


THE BIG IDEA: Donald Trump made a bold pronouncement in the weeks before he became president that is not aging well.

The U.S. government confirmed last night that North Korea successfully tested an intercontinental ballistic missile, crossing a chilling threshold and underscoring Trump’s failure to change the trajectory of dictator Kim Jong Un’s nuclear program over the past six months.
-- “The latest missile flew higher and remained in the air longer than previous attempts — enough to reach all of Alaska,” Anne Gearan and Emily Rauhala report on our front page. “The launch follows a string of recent actions by Pyongyang, including a salvo of missiles last month and three tests in May. Kim has now launched more missiles in one year than his father and predecessor in the family dynasty did in 17 years in power. North Korea has also conducted five nuclear weapons tests since 2006, including two last year.”
-- Experts say the missile was a “real ICBM” and showed technical sophistication that Western experts believed North Korea was years away from mastering. “North Korea’s apparent accomplishment puts it well ahead of schedule,” Joby Warrick explains. “The Hwasong-14 tested Monday could not have reached the U.S. mainland, analysts say, and there’s no evidence to date that North Korea is capable of building a miniaturized nuclear warhead to fit on one of its longer-range missiles. But there is now little reason to doubt that both are within North Korea’s grasp.”
-- The U.S. Army and South Korean military responded last night with a show of force, launching their own missiles into South Korean territorial waters along the country’s eastern coastline. U.S. Pacific Command called this a direct response to “North Korea’s destabilizing and unlawful actions.” (Dan Lamothe has more.)

-- The past three presidents have tried to negotiate, only to learn that Pyongyang can never be trusted. Reflecting the hubris of someone who believes he alone can fix things, Trump’s “it will not happen” tweet came two months after Barack Obama warned him privately that North Korea would likely be the single most urgent problem he confronted as president. Several aides from the last administration also told their incoming counterparts that the missile program should be their top national security priority.
-- Trump naively thought he could persuade China to pressure North Korea to stop its nuclear activities. Then President Xi Jinping tutored him on the history of the region when they met at Mar-a-Lago in April. “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized that it’s not so easy,” the president admitted afterward, recounting the history lesson. “You know, I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power over North Korea. But it’s not what you would think.”
-- During the transition, Trump appeared to embrace “the madman theory” of foreign policy. The president-elect believed he could use his reputation for unpredictability to unnerve and intimidate America’s adversaries into making concessions that they would not otherwise make. Some people close to Trump thought, for example, that North Korea might come to the table out of fear that the American president might just be crazy enough to take preemptive military action. (I wrote last December about why this was both risky and likely to fail, as it did when Richard Nixon first tried it during Vietnam.)
-- During the campaign, Trump also expressed openness to South Korea and Japan developing their own nuclear weapons. “They'd probably wipe them out pretty quick,” Trump said during a Wisconsin rally in March 2016, musing flippantly about a thermonuclear confrontation with North Korea. “If they fight, you know what, that'd be a terrible thing. … But if they do, they do. Good luck, enjoy yourself, folks.”

Economy of deceit: How North Korea funds its nuclear weapons program | Loopholes
-- As the first president in U.S. history with no prior military or government experience, Trump has clearly never studied “deterrence theory”: If he thought a show of force would deter North Korea, he thought wrong. If anything, the president’s previous saber-rattling has only driven the regime to accelerate its efforts to build a nuclear weapon capable of striking the mainland United States.
North Korea’s ability to bomb American population centers – whether Seattle, San Francisco or Los Angeles – would dramatically change the Washington calculus and massively constrain our ability to use military force. That’s the whole point of these tests. “The fear is not that Mr. Kim would launch a pre-emptive attack on the West Coast; that would be suicidal, and if the 33-year-old leader has demonstrated anything in his five years in office, he is all about survival,” David Sanger writes on the front page of today’s New York Times. “As he looks around the world, he sees cases like that of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi of Libya — an authoritarian who gave up his nascent nuclear program, only to be deposed, with American help, as soon as his people turned against him. That is what Mr. Kim believes his nuclear program will prevent — an American effort to topple him. He may be right.”
“There is no good option here,” former acting CIA director Michael Morell said on “CBS This Morning.” “There is no military option here to destroy the nuclear program (or) his missile program. There is no option to do that that wouldn't start a second Korean War and wouldn't raise the possibility of him using nuclear weapons against his neighbors. The risks are extraordinarily high in a military standoff”
As Jim Mattis put it in March, “A conflict in North Korea would be probably the worst kind of fighting in most people’s lifetimes.” “The bottom line is it would be a catastrophic war if this turns into a combat if we’re not able to resolve this situation through diplomatic means,” the secretary of defense said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”

Trump calls for more action against North Korea
-- Trump administration officials have been saying for months now that “the era of strategic patience is over,” a reference to Obama’s approach, but no one has explained what exactly will replace it.
After visiting the demilitarized zone in April, Vice President Pence first announced that “the era of strategic patience is over” and declared that “all options are on the table.” “North Korea would do well not to test (Trump’s) resolve -- or the strength of the armed forces of the United States in this region,” said Pence, whose dad fought in the Korean War.
North Korea has repeatedly tested Trump’s resolve during the intervening three months and not suffered any discernable consequences. During a joint statement in the Rose Garden last Friday with South Korean President Moon Jae-in, Trump reiterated the talking point: "The era of strategic patience with the North Korean regime has failed.” He added that he wants “peace, stability and prosperity” for the region but said ambiguously that the U.S. will "always" defend itself and its allies.
Last week, the Trump administration put in place sanctions on a China-based bank accused of laundering money for the North Korean government. In a statement over the holiday weekend, the White House also implicitly threatened to reassert U.S. complaints about Chinese economic practices that Trump has largely set aside in recent months as he has sought to engage Xi.
While China pledges cooperation with the United States over North Korea, Beijing has not fundamentally shifted away from a strategy that balances pressure on the Kim regime with keeping the regime afloat, said Chris Steinitz, a research scientist at the federally funded, nonprofit Center for Naval Analyses. “It’s kind of how China looks at everything. They have a very long view,” Steinitz told my colleagues Anne and Emily. “They will wait. They will bide their time. They have a lot of priorities.”
Don’t forget that the U.S.-Sino relationship involves far more than North Korea: China yesterday vowed to step up its air and sea patrols after a U.S. warship sailed near a disputed island in the South China Sea, and last week the United States announced a new arms deal with Taiwan. “The bromance is over,” Evan Medeiros, a former adviser to Obama on Asia policy, told Simon Denyer and Thomas Gibbons-Neff. “The honeymoon is clearly over, but the next phase is less clear.”
-- In response to the missile test, Trump yesterday ridiculed Kim and ratcheted up rhetorical pressure on China to apply more pressure. He did this on Twitter:



Russia and China join forces over North Korea
The president offered no additional specifics. His aides, meanwhile, called for an emergency public session of the U.N. Security Council. The international response will also certainly be high on the president’s agenda at the Group of 20 economic summit this week. “Global action is required to stop a global threat,” Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said in a statement yesterday afternoon. “Any country that hosts North Korean guest workers, provides any economic or military benefits, or fails to fully implement UN Security Council resolutions is aiding and abetting a dangerous regime. All nations should publicly demonstrate to North Korea that there are consequences to their pursuit of nuclear weapons.”
Many Democrats called on the administration to offer a clearer strategy. “Instead of vague Twitter bluster, President Trump should answer North Korea’s dangerous test with a coherent strategy of direct diplomacy with Pyongyang and increased economic sanctions pressure from China,” Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.), the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations East Asia subcommittee, said in a Facebook post yesterday.
-- U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley, for her part, grumbled that she had to work on the Fourth of July – a tone-deaf comment considering both the gravity of the threat and the reality that tens of thousands of American soldiers serve vigilantly every holiday without ever complaining:


Why does North Korea hate the U.S.? Look to the Korean War.

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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11232
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
You can thank Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton for North Korea’s nukes
By Post Editorial Board

January 6, 2016

North Korea’s boast that it just detonated its first hydrogen bomb met instant doubts from the White House and arms experts. If they’re right, Pyongyang “only” has plain-old atomic bombs. What a . . . relief?
But, as one Chinese expert told The Wall Street Journal, the H-bomb claim still shows that tyrant Kim Jong-un is “marching in that direction.”
For all this, thank Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. North Korea couldn’t have done it without their gullibility.
Back in 1994, President Clinton prepared to confront North Korea over CIA reports it had built nuclear warheads and its subsequent threats to engulf Japan and South Korea in “a sea of fire.”
Enter self-appointed peacemaker Carter: The ex-prez scurried off to Pyongyang and negotiated a sellout deal that gave North Korea two new reactors and $5 billion in aid in return for a promise to quit seeking nukes.
Clinton embraced this appeasement as achieving “an end to the threat of nuclear proliferation on the Korean Peninsula” — with compliance verified by international inspectors. Carter wound up winning the Nobel Peace Prize for his dubious efforts.
But in 2002, the North Koreans ’fessed up: They’d begun violating the accord on Day One. Four years later, Pyongyang detonated its first nuke.
Now, the Obama administration (long content to kick the North Korea can down the road) says it will never “accept” a nuclear North Korea. Funny: The president said the same thing about Iran, then cut a deal that guarantees the ayatollahs go atomic.
Yet North Korea is more of a wild card, a concentration camp of a nation run by a tiny, ruthless elite. If it ever lives up to its boasts and unleashes that “sea of fire,” will Carter, Clinton and Obama shed public tears for Pyongyang’s victims?

http://nypost.com/2016/01/06/you-can-thank-jimmy-carter-and-bill-clinton-for-north-koreas-nukes/

Bill Clinton is also responsible for giving China a missile guidance system developed by Loral, in the guise of needing it for a communication satellite, ha, when we all know that a missile guidance system can be used for any kind of missile carrying anything. And surely since 1999 when this deal was struck, China wasn't doing any business with the 'Norks',,,,,,,,,, hardly.

So keep beating that GOP is evil drum xxx and your buddies, it's making you guys go deaf.


Fake news by two arms of the ruppy murdoch sex slave network, where he allowed multiple sexual offenders to be not only paid the most but to allow payoff for crimes. And this is not his first issue with hiss illegal ownership of criminal behavior. His media in the UK was caught illegally accessing peoples cell phones as well as dead peoples cell phones.

That is what Murdoch does. again he does not fire his hate reporters for putting out fake news or breaking laws, he promotes them.

all the above is just a fake news story as the right wingers like President at the time Gen. Eisenhower did not solve the issue.

When will the right wing fire Murdoch for his criminal empire called fake news. He is the boss and he knew his trash emplire was garbage. they had paid out millions in settlements for the crimes. He knew. and most of all he was directly responsible for his owned companies.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 13341
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW is in the gutter, right next to Malibu, washing in biased reports: https://www.quora.com/How-reliable-is-the-New-York-Post-compared-to-other-newspapers

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-post/

And then, with the right kind of snark:

Quote:
The New York Post, also known as the New York comPost, is a daily newspaper that has operated continuously since its founding by Alexander Hamilton in 1801. It claims to be the oldest daily in the United States and it is the 13th oldest newspaper in the country. Throughout its history, the Post has switched political leanings several times. Throughout the 20th century, the Post was a liberal, actively pro-labor paper. Then in 1976, Rupert Murdoch bought the paper and turned it into New York City's voice of wingnut yellow journalism. (Similarly, his British paper The Sun was originally a left-wing paper which evolved out of the trade union-affiliated Daily Herald.). It is a favorite for anti-libertarian big government conservatives of the North who support gun control for black people.
Today, the paper is known for its racy front pages, which include screaming headlines[1] and juxtapositions that would be considered inappropriate in other papers.[2]
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6030
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Source bashing instead of even trying to prove the history as being wrong.
Typical liberal BS by the two most rabid liberals here.
You two make me laugh, constantly. Very Happy
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11232
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Source bashing instead of even trying to prove the history as being wrong.
Typical liberal BS by the two most rabid liberals here.
You two make me laugh, constantly. Very Happy


no links to their story .... again when you do not list links that can be verified and it is a site that is known for fake news over and over, even having employees that rape and it is covered up.

a simple simon, without proper citations on such an important issue. so hard to really tell what they are talking about. so you go after them for poor journalism... Here is one example..., one is were they going to put in heavy water nuke plants that produce 10-50 times the amount of fissionable material vs a light water reactor . Plus it is so much easier to refine to make nuclear weapons grade materials. keeping heavy water out of potential threats is in our national security.

So in other words if they would have gone forward with building a heavy water nuke plant they would be able to produce several hundred nukes by now vs a couple that they presently have. and they are still limited in how many they can make vs being a real world threat. China or Russia would have provided them with the heavywater nuke plant.




http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-heavy-water-2013-11
Here's What 'Heavy Water' Is, And Why It Matters For Nuclear Weapons

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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.


Last edited by real-human on Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 13341
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Source bashing instead of even trying to prove the history as being wrong.
Typical liberal BS by the two most rabid liberals here.
You two make me laugh, constantly. Very Happy


You make me weep. You only search for information that confirms your biases, and you have no comprehension of the importance of a credible source. Anything to the left of Alex Jones is "liberal." Sad.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 13341
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many sources for decent, non-crazy analysis of North Korea. Perhaps if we had a president who could read, he might consult them. Here from the Post:

Quote:
-- The past three presidents have tried to negotiate, only to learn that Pyongyang can never be trusted. Reflecting the hubris of someone who believes he alone can fix things, Trump’s “it won't happen” tweet came two months after Barack Obama warned him privately that North Korea would likely be the single most urgent problem he confronted as president. Several aides from the last administration also told their incoming counterparts that the missile program should be their top national security priority.

-- Trump naively thought he could persuade China to pressure North Korea to stop its nuclear activities. Then President Xi Jinping tutored him on the history of the region when they met at Mar-a-Lago in April. “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized that it’s not so easy,” the president admitted afterward, recounting the history lesson. “You know, I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power over North Korea. But it’s not what you would think.”


But Trump has no plan--and no clue. Like many of his supporters.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7655
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW ...we're happy to read all your "blame everything on the liberals" posts, you're really good at them...But MAC is right, please don't link to my favorite tabloid, the NY POST...if, you want any credibilty. The Post is known for sports, sex, and graphic pictures of murders in the big apple...
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11232
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Source bashing instead of even trying to prove the history as being wrong.
Typical liberal BS by the two most rabid liberals here.
You two make me laugh, constantly. Very Happy


come on mr IQ30 where is your intellectual rebuttal to my above points I brought up.....




Again your fake news site did not point that so critically important fact out. So again they should be fired. But by keeping rapist and fake news idiots and such stupid people why should I have to point out the reality and gravity of the situation. you guys are just so friggin gullible and stupid.

Prove what it took me 2 seconds to know stunk about a trash media source on such an important fact/issue. and the issue here is I do this (laser focused destroy your lies and misinformation) to you idiots day in and day out and you have never caught me saying anything of that magnitude of stupidity ever in a single post in many years. And this is a day in day out thing for your stupid lemming posts.

You are a disgrace to your IQ of 30...

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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6030
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still no left revision of the history I posted, just continued source bashing, and joined by boggsy this time, so be it, if that's all you guys have. Not surprised by the lazy lack of effort. Bashing is the easy way out.

If I wanted to post fake news, I'd post something like this~
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