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Early planing boards
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grant, try a kona one
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
grant, try a kona one


I know he's been on one, for at least an initial test session. And I bought a few, so I will get him some more Kona time, this summer.

He's become a very good sailor, in a short time... and has a great background for advancing in this sport... and he's smart and has a good sensible perspective on many issues... is young, strong and athletic.

And I've heard other sailors say similar things about sailing longboards. But I've been sailing them for a LONG time, and I can't say that I ever feel that. Probably cause I'm not sensitive enough. But really, when you get planning on a high performance longboard, and you're leaning back in the harness, the power in the sail, makes the board fly across the water just like a shortboard (as far as I can tell).
Here's a 30 sec vid, where I'm barely planning - 200 lb - old worn out 7.9m race sail with more tape on it than original sail material - old 1993 raceboard. And this certainly feels slippery and efficient to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FttONbPIUp8

It is true that a good longboard simply goes faster and faster, it's very smooth, and all of a sudden you're planning. So maybe the pull through the harness is more gradual and longer, but once flying, it feels the same to me, I actually never think about it. It's for sure easier than PUMPING a formula up to a plane in marginal winds. The formula does have a dramatic change from slogging to planning. You'd feel a big difference in the harness. Grant's longboard is a Starboard Phantom 320, which is a high performance hybrid kinda model. It's way shorter and way wider than typical raceboards. It's a good board, but not the same feeling or design as a good longboard.

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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 946

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A proper Kona test drive is in the agenda this summer for sure. Likely a few in a variety of conditions. I like One Design concepts on principal.

The 320 is an odd duck and mine isn't the greatest example. I'm struggling with some tuning but it's all related to light wind upwind performance, tacks and on-plane gybing. On a planing reach the board is fast and stable but physically demanding.
Generally if I have enough wind to be blasting on the 320 then I have enough to be having more fun on smaller gear. If I had more local access to racing this would be a different story.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your 320 is kinda heavy... and if that makes it durable, then it's a good thing as you've been learning this sport. But it's wide... so width and heavy weight are NOT a good combo for high performance. Novices don't need to worry about high performance. But you've advanced fast... and you do think about "that performance" now.

If your heavy longboard was a narrow round bottom Div 2 board, then the weight wouldn't matter very much... it would rip around up and down wind, and exploring bays, really well.
But a heavy weight, wide board is not high performance (which you've come to desire).

Yes, the same wind that gets your 320 up and planning will plane a big shortboard (that's light). And the light, shortboard will handle easier with less mass. The 320 will be heavy and hard handling with all that mass flying around in choppy water at speed. so your observations make sense.

A Kona One is probably lighter than your 320 (we can find out this summer). And it's certainly narrower and a foot longer... so it will travel easier for you through chop at 15 mph than your 320 does. And a good 90's raceboard would do it even a bit better.

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Brian.bigfella@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gvogelsang wrote:
I wonder which would be a better marginal wind board: Tabou Speedster 138 or Rocket Wide 135? Not just for ease of planing, but for marginal all around use?


Probably the Speedster. I demo'd a bunch of wide, thin boards last year and the Rocket Wide was the most racy feeling, but what I know of the Speedster is it's a slightly detuned slalom board making it more challenging to ride for beginners and intermediates.

FWIW, I ended up getting a Fanatic Gecko 146 because it's SO easy to ride it's ridiculous. It was a bit of a toss up between that and the JP Magic Ride, but the Gecko just suits my riding style (which is not good, but it's still mine.) If someone's an intermediate or just looking to cruise around those would be my two choices. If someone is looking for speed they're better off going for the Tabous.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you get up on a plane and move back in the straps, the nose of the board starts to lift. As you get to top speed less and less of the board is in the water. This frees up the board reduces drag and allows you to "ride the fin" Thats when you get the free feeling like going down hill. If all things are balanced you can let go of the boom and go for a ride. Long and heavy boards while they do plane never or rarely lift and ride the fin. I met two guys while I was at SPI this April. They where practicing for a big Kona race later in the year. I don't know how big that sail is but it was at least 6.5. We got to sail several lite days together. Me on a 6.5 and a 116 3s. In non planing conditions it wasn't even close. They where all over the bay. looked like fun. As soon as the wind picked up a bit, I flew by them. It looked like that long hull although it was planning, was pushing a lot of water with nose slapping the small chop. Side by side getting up and going i had a big advantage. My board jumped up to speed while the longer heavier Kona sort of took its time. I'm not saying who was having more fun. They where very good on that board. Made think about getting one until I picked one up.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 946

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg,

The 320 is the same width as the Kona and 2kg lighter by spec. Less nose rocker and obviously no step tail but the mast track takes care of the waterline length.
The bottom is nearly flat and rails are round. Not ideal for efficient planing but I've done a mile at 18 kts so it's quick enough.
I doubt the board holds me back at our races (dropping sails is a slow way to race).

Never going to plane up as soon as something 30% wider and 60% of the weight. Just look at our jetty races on nights when the FW guys can plane up wind and they walk away from the longboards.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:

The 320 is the same width as the Kona and 2kg lighter by spec. Less nose rocker and obviously no step tail but the mast track takes care of the waterline length.
The bottom is nearly flat and rails are round. Not ideal for efficient planing but I've done a mile at 18 kts so it's quick enough.
I doubt the board holds me back at our races (dropping sails is a slow way to race).

Never going to plane up as soon as something 30% wider and 60% of the weight. Just look at our jetty races on nights when the FW guys can plane up wind and they walk away from the longboards.


I don't believe "the specs" that brands list... and regarding board weight, they always lie. I'll bring a calibrated scale up this summer and we'll weigh boards side by side. Maybe the 320 is lighter than I thought... it'll be easy to see.
And I sail longboards, shortboards and sometimes my FW (which can be fast in certain conditions). However, in most our local club racing... the raceboards run away from the formula boards. Only when it's windy, are formula boards fast. But then, raceboards are also fast in wind. There are many variables, but in our local club races... with us average recreational sailors... the formula boards don't run away from me (all else being equal).

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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

from my experiences the kona one and some of its derivatives are faster than traditional racing long boards in everything but the lightest of wind. FW gets really tricky in strong wind when one is trying to reach.

step up fin and sail, and kona one gets pretty sexy even in light winds

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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^+1
Quote:
kona one is faster than traditional racing long boards in everything but the lightest of wind


sailboarder was out with his K1 and I was on my Ultra Cat. His sail was 0.5 meters more and wind was very light when we started
when either of us was on the CAT, it slowly moved ahead
the wind picked up ever so slightly and the Kona would start to pull away
we did not get planing winds that day to really see the difference
but both felt same as what was quoted
what are the results of the open races ??
who wins - DIV2, raceboard or Kona derivative ??
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