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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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 Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| qwertyjjj wrote: | | cgoudie1 wrote: | Actually it's very easy to jibe a longboard with the dagger down in
sub-planning conditions, but you should weight the windward rail
rather than the leeward rail. I'd guess an inflatable with a center fin
would snap right around the same way.
-Craig
| qwertyjjj wrote: | A lot of the starboard boards have a back fin and a center fin (both screwed in). You cannot lift the center fin like a dagger board whilst on the water you would have to stop on the beach and unscrew it.
I was told it's very hard to gybe with the dagger down since it will want to push you back upwind. This is why the dagger is lifted for gybing. Yet with a center fin you can never lift it whilst in the water. |
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Why windward? Isn't that the complete opposite technique to a carve gybe? Also, can't you do it flat?
Why then has every teacher told me to lift the dagger before gybing? Confused  |
qwerty - I'll ask again - "What wind speed (approx.) is the light wind sailing that you'll be doing?"
Next -
I don't know why windsurfing instructors have told you lift the daggerboard before jibing. But they're wrong... or you misunderstood... or there was an exception they were describing... or they're not very experienced longboarder's... or something weird, I don't know.
I'm a US Sailing certified windsurfing instructor (and there are other's here also on iW)... and, I've been teaching and sailing longboards for a LONG time.
And what I said above... and what cgoudie said is correct.
BTW I'm not saying you can't jibe a longboard with the daggerboard retracted, of course you can. BUT you would probably be in moderate wind (like 10-20) and planing... and your daggerboard would already be retracted before you jibed. So again, that's not a situation where you retract it right before jibing.
The point is... if you're in light wind (like 1-12 knots) and sub-planning with the daggerboard down... and you want to jibe, then, just do it. There's no reason to fiddle around, retracting it.
Oh... and... the sub-planning jibe technique that cgoudie mentioned is a great way to jibe a longboard. The sinking the windward rail deal, while jibing a longboard, is also called daggerboard steering. You don't know that technique yet, cause it's more advanced. (And if your teacher is not very experienced, they might know it either.)
Keep up the good practice
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Greg
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Pics of two inflatables that I sailed today.
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Greg
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qwertyjjj
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Most of my learning has been 8-15 knots on a lake... with a lot of balance trouble at the higher end due to waves.
My current Starboard go had a 40 fin at the back and a 50 center fin. So I should continue using it in that mode? My instructor felt I would only need a 25cm center skeg bit they don't exist in tuttles.
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| qwertyjjj wrote: | Most of my learning has been 8-15 knots on a lake... with a lot of balance trouble at the higher end due to waves.
My current Starboard go had a 40 fin at the back and a 50 center fin. So I should continue using it in that mode? My instructor felt I would only need a 25cm center skeg bit they don't exist in tuttles. |
qwerty - You started this thread with "can you put a regular windsurf rig, on an inflatable windsurfer?"
Answer - "yes you can, in fact, that's exactly what you do" (details posted earlier).
Then it got into, "Can you jibe a longboard with the daggerboard down, cause you have been told, that's not good technique". Answer - "yes, you can".
But now, we see what board you're on... and what wind speed you're sailing in... and that you're sailing on a lake.
So ok. You're Starboard Go board is not a longboard... it's a big shortboard. It's a versatile board, that does lots of things pretty well (but isn't totally awesome, at any one thing). It's a hardboard with inserts for adding footstraps. It can be sailed by experts and do some amazing things... and it has a deep Tuttle finbox so the advanced sailor can put a big, fancy, expensive fin in it, for top performance.
Next, you're sailing in more wind than lots of people get. 8-15 knots is enough, that an experienced sailor with the right gear could be planning half the time. And when planning, they could do a planning jibe. Meaning, an experienced guy that can use big sails, who wants to maximize high performance would not have the center fin in their Go board. And that's cause, having that centerfin installed, would mess up planning jibes for an advanced sailor using big sails (while planing around your lake on his Go board).
HOWEVER for you... if you're a novice using small sails... you're not going that fast, even in 8-15 knots. Like you said the lake chop from the 15 knot wind, is still hard for you to manage. So if you're going slow (sub-planing) that centerfin on your Go will NOT mess you up.
However, KEEP PRACTICING, cause you will get good enough to handle bigger sails eventually. And then you will be going faster... and then you will remove that centerfin for good.
Patience and practice... keep it up
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| qwertyjjj wrote: | Most of my learning has been 8-15 knots on a lake... with a lot of balance trouble at the higher end due to waves.
My current Starboard go had a 40 fin at the back and a 50 center fin. So I should continue using it in that mode? My instructor felt I would only need a 25cm center skeg bit they don't exist in tuttles. |
Oh yeah... I like the advice you got to put a shorter center fin in your Go board. Here's why I think that could be good in some situations.
For the novice, using small sails... with novice technique... you are going slow... and you don't want to get blown downwind... you want to get back to your beach each time... THEREFORE having that big centerfin you have make sense. Because it will act like a daggerboard in a longboard, and help the inefficient novice to stay upwind.
However, as you gain experience... you will start using bigger sails... and you will start going faster (in the same typical wind speed you said). And as you travel through the water faster, you will get enough "lift" or "drive" from your tail fin. And with more experience (and bigger sails, and or more speed) you will be able to work your way upwind, with just a good tail fin.
But for now... I think you're instructor is saying, that you're improving... you're going faster and using bigger sails. Therefore having a small centerfin would be enough of a "safety margin" for you (as long as you're going fast enough and are efficient enough to stay upwind).
You said there are no short "deep Tuttle" fins. I don't think you need a fancy fin... you just need something to give you some traction / tracking, in this in between speed. So look for an old used deep Tuttle fin and cut it down to the size he said. Sand it a bit, and it'll be fine for what you want.
Check ebay, craigslist, local sailors, swap meets, look in your instructors gear bag... you'll find a cheap deep tuttle fin that you can cut down.
Good luck
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qwertyjjj
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Normal mast on inflatable windsup? |
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| gregnw44 wrote: | | qwertyjjj wrote: | I was thinking of getting an inflatable windsup for ease of city storage and also light wind sailing.
Can you put a normal carbon mast on these or does it have to be an inflatable mast? |
You say, you want to use it for light wind sailing? Can you please post what your wind speed is, for light wind sailing?
And you ask about sail sizes... and fixed fins that are screwed in.
I don't have any experience with the JP so can't comment anything about it.
I do have two inflatable WindSUP's that I've sailed a bit and used for teaching. All in light wind from 1 to 10 knots (maybe a brief sesh in 12 knots, once).
Exocet Discovery 10'6" and a Chinook 11'6" RaceTour (race tour is just a name, I wouldn't compete on it).
You can put any size sail on them, and they will work for sailing around in those wind speeds. However BIG sails are not recommended for long life for these models!
These are lightwind, fun cruising, and gliding-around boards. I'm careful with my gear, but I don't expect these to last for 25 years, like my hardboards do.
They suggest using medium size sails on these two, like 7.5m and smaller (5 to 6.5 is great)! And the reason is that big, heavy, powerful rigs will definitely put more stress on everything!! And so I am following that advice, cause I want them to last. And I don't want a blow-out in the middle of the lake.
The two I have are not meant for planning or high speeds, they don't have footstraps, and they have basic, lightweight, simple fins. These are not for high performance... but they are fun and they work REALLY well for what they're designed to do.
Fin configuration?
Inflatable WindSUP's come with many different fin set-ups. For me, I want a tail fin (like all windsurfer's have)... and I want a center mounted fin (like a small centerboard). The fins and finboxes on mine are light duty, simple designs... and so far they work great. For me, using these in the light wind I said above, and teaching with them in those wind speeds... I wanted this fin arrangement for good tracking, and to make sailing up and down wind good and effective.
And I'm very happy with both boards!!
And all the students have really liked them, they are very stable, yet have good glide.
They are also stiffer than I thought they'd be. I'm 200 lbs and I have crashed through, and up and over, big boat wake chop (in summer, our lakes are full of pleasure boats flying around). I mean, yes, they do flex... these are not carbon raceboards. To me, they flex about like a 1986 Obrien Sensation which was an inexpensive poly longboard. Except these two weigh about half what the Sensation weighed !!
The newer sailors don't know anything about carbon raceboard stiffness, so they never mention it... to them, these are just very fun and effective.
The major advantages of these two are -
They're lightweight and easy to carry around. 27-29 lbs each.
They sail well on all points of sail.
They tack and jibe very well... just like any longboard in light wind.
They're stable. And you can SUP them.
They roll up into the included bag, or you can leave them inflated and put them on a roof rack like a hard board. Although use common sense here.
A smaller guy or women can carry them and lift them up onto a roof rack.
You can transport them in the trunk of your car, take them up an elevator, or on a plane.
They seem well made and I expect some good years of use from them.
I'll be on both of them later today, Cheers |
What are your other boards though? Are the sups the only light wind sailing board you use? Eg and the rest sub 100litre...
I ask because I have a starboard go 160l, which should float me even in light winds but I only have access to it outside the city.
The inflatable was for use on evenings when I can only get to some local water for a bit. I don't have any storage space for a board during the week and felt this would give me more time on the water and be easy to balance.
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grantmac017
Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 946
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Once you get planing or at least decently powered going to an inflatable WindSUP on a lake is going to be miserably boring.
If you have decent wind then perhaps one if the recent performance inflatable boards would be better?
If not then you might need to get creative with a storage solution.
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: |
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qwerty asked - "What are your other boards though? Are the sups the only light wind sailing board you use? Eg and the rest sub 100litre...
I ask because I have a starboard go 160l, which should float me even in light winds but I only have access to it outside the city.
The inflatable was for use on evenings when I can only get to some local water for a bit. I don't have any storage space for a board during the week and felt this would give me more time on the water and be easy to balance."
---------------------------------------
Answer -
I have tons of boards and tons of rigs (sails, masts, booms, etc.) a 3 car garage, filled with gear. I'm an addict and have been buying and selling gear for a long time. And as I said, have been teaching windsurfing in my local area for a long time (generally a light wind area, and always flat water sailing, not a wave sailor. And I also do some high wind Gorge sailing 4 hours away).
And as I said, I bought the inflatable windsurfers with tail fin and center fin (like a small daggerboard) for teaching in our typical light wind, and I'm promoting them to people sailing near me in our typical light wind and flat water conditions (not wave sailing).
And I think they're awesome!!!
They sail in these types of conditions really well... they sail all points of sail, like any longboard... and the two I have are more stable than most longboards... and of course you can SUP them if there's zero breeze.
You asked if these are my only light wind boards?
No, I have many light wind longboards. 1 from the 80's... 1 from the 90's... and a few new Kona's... all are high performance longboards.
You asked... are the rest of my boards, small sinker shortboards under 100 L in volume? Answer - I have 3 boards in that category, but I'm 200 lbs and am not a coastal wave sailor, so I only sail a board that size in high wind which is rare for me. I have many more bigger shortboards (like 105 to 150L) that I get to use more on our rare winter windy days or in the Gorge. And I have a formula board that is another big shortboard... and I just bought a foil for it, but haven't tried it yet.
I've never owned a Go board, like you have, but I have sailed them.
You asked about using one of the newer inflatable longboards with center mounted fin and tail fin for use after work near where you live, in light wind, because you have no storage for a big hardboard?
YES, these are great for exactly that !!
The more time you can be on the water with a boom in your hand... the better you will get. You can learn and practice lots of board and sail handling drills and exercises with them. And these skills will all transfer to your weekend trips, out to sail the Go board.
This is a great, fun, and challenging sport... there is always lots more to learn and be challenged with... whether you've sailed 2 months, 2 years, or 20 years!!
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Greg
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qwertyjjj
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| grantmac017 wrote: | Once you get planing or at least decently powered going to an inflatable WindSUP on a lake is going to be miserably boring.
If you have decent wind then perhaps one if the recent performance inflatable boards would be better?
If not then you might need to get creative with a storage solution. |
I thought all the recently mentioned performance boards were hardboard exocets or did you mean other brands? If so, which ones?
I've only seen a red paddle co, viper air, jp all-round air, starboard 2017 inflatable locally.
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: |
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qwerty - What's your approx weight??
Sailor weight is always important when discussing windsurf gear!
Next, what part of the country are you in... what city is near by?
And next, you have a good list of inflatable recreational WindSUP's.
But you should add a few more - Exocet... Kona... Naish... Chinook (except Chinook is all sold out for now. They won't have more till end of the year.)
All of these are available mail order. And BONUS... all of these inflatables can be shipped, cheap, via UPS right to your house!!
Shipping high performance longboards is EXPENSIVE.
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