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Formula fin on Kona?
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kalaniwavo



Joined: 01 Jan 2016
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Formula fin on Kona? Reply with quote

Current light wind setup is a Kona One with Ezzy Infinity 9.5 with cams. Sailing open ocean in the gulf of Mex, and it seems like the bottom end of my ability to plane is 15mph. I've made a lot of progress with my technique to get on a plane pumping and using mast base pressure but I would like to plane up and stay up in lighter winds. I'm 6'3 210lbs.

Short story is buying another board or huge rig is out the question. Would a larger fin help? Formula 70cm fin? Or would a different sail around the same size help (so I can avoid buying another mast/boom)

OR, am I stuck slogging around all summer here until the cold fronts start rolling thru again?
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4953
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if a Kona were equipped with Deep Tuttle, which I doubt, the fin would probably tear the finbox right off the tail of the board.
Instead of going longer, go wider. Look around for those keel type fins made for the finbox your Kona has, and remember, square inches rule for early planing, not length.
I'd recommend MUCH LESS downhaul for your sail first. In light winds, you don't need twist to dump off excess wind.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 920

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kona is power box so you won't find a fin that can break it.

That said 15 mph is perfect for working on your upwind and downwind skills. Faster tacks/gybes and better angle. You can always find something to learn with a longboard if you have enough wind to move.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3039

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything has a limit and you may have reached yours. Planing at 15 mph on a Kona at your weight is pretty impressive. Most guys your size need bigger gear or bigger wind.

Kona is a power box & that limits your fin size, especially at your weight. Pushing a power box fin beyond 50 cm is very risky, in my opinion. Leed's option on shorter, wider fin will help, but may be hard to find & not gain much of what you already have.

Other option is to throw on a smaller sail & practice freestyle if you can not plane.

Coachg
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gvogelsang



Joined: 09 Nov 1988
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be on the lookout for an old Formula board.
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kalaniwavo



Joined: 01 Jan 2016
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Everything has a limit and you may have reached yours. Planing at 15 mph on a Kona at your weight is pretty impressive. Most guys your size need bigger gear or bigger wind.

Kona is a power box & that limits your fin size, especially at your weight. Pushing a power box fin beyond 50 cm is very risky, in my opinion. Leed's option on shorter, wider fin will help, but may be hard to find & not gain much of what you already have.

Other option is to throw on a smaller sail & practice freestyle if you can not plane.

Coachg


By "bottom end" of planing I'm really talking heading downwind, possibly with current and/or pumping into swell. I'll keep an eye out for larger profile fins but it sounds like only a marginal performance gain for the most part. I've been at the beach the past few evenings and the seabreeze has been right at that 12-14mph range... and kind of bugging me and itching to get out. Thanks all for the info.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9990

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You never mentioned the size of your existing fin. If you could find a bigger fin with a PB base, it would give you a much better opportunity to plane up earlier. Like mentioned earlier, a maximum total area in the overall fin design would be optimum for your needs. I would look for a vertical Course Slalom planform with a larger, more powerful tip shape.

Tectonics' older Spitfire and Mirage Course Slalom designs would be the ideal type of fin outline that you would need. I have a 46cm Spitfire and a 50cm Mirage (mine are both Tuttlebox bases). The larger, more stout Mirage really boosted my early planing and upwind capabilities.

Unfortunately, Tectonics no longer has either of these models in their current line-up, but it might be possible to get a custom one made. I'm sure that Dennis Pardon still has the CNC programming on file to make them today. Yet, Tectonics fins are a bit pricey (probably around $225+), but it would be a great investment overall.

If you want, I can take a photo of both the Spitfire and the Mirage fins to give you an idea of what these designs look like. If anything, that would give you the opportunity to compare them with similar fin designs made by other fin manufacturers out there right now.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1138
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am a little shorter and heavier than the OP
in 15 knots I can plane on an 80 cm wide board with an 8.x (8.0-8.5) and 48 cm fin
the K1 is 70 cm wide ...
in 12-14 knots I can plane with a JP SLW92 using a 10-oh race sail and 66 cm fin
under 12 knots I use a Mistral Equipe 2 XR longboard with any of the above mentioned sails and shorter fins
.
one day Sailboarder and I were out comparing my longboard to his K1
at that time my longboard was a Fanatic Ultra CAT
we both felt in light winds under 14 knots the longboard did better
when winds started to pick up, we felt the K1 would do better, but were unable to confirm this completely
.
old longboards can be found if one is patient for not a lot of money
maybe for even less than a $300 fin
.
i do have a Shark 52 cm PB fin that I have not tested yet.
imagine you are NOT near Montreal - or I could let you try it - to see ...
have NOT seen longer PB fins than that - may have to go by area ...

here is a discussion that may be of interest:
https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Review/Planing-in-10-11-knots--What-board--what-sail-?page=3
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1275
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kalani- It sounds like you've pretty much maxed out what your board and sail will do.

You can put a 50 cm powerbox fin in the Kona and get a slight advantage over the 46 cm stock fin, but it will be a pretty minor difference. Probably won't lower your planing threshold, but could help a little bit with staying upwind once planing.

Even if you could find a powerbox fin >50 cm, the Kona is too narrow to benefit from such a fin. The vertical fin and the horizontal planing surface of the board's tail work together, leveraging against each other, so the length of the fin really shouldn't exceed the width of the board under the finbox. That is why only super wide formula boards work with super long formula fins. When I had a Kona ONE I tried it with a 9.8 sail and 54 cm fin, but that was an awkward and crappy combo.

To summarize- Cheap way to get slightly better light wind performance from the Kona ONE is to put a 50 cm fin in it, but not bigger than that. If you want to significantly lower your planing threshold you'll need a wide, lightweight board like a formula board... but then you'll probably be tempted into using 11.0+ cambered sails, which are expensive and a pain in the ass to rig and stuff. If you like fiddling with gear it's worth it, if not, it's not.

_________________
James' Blog: Windsurfing Equipment Size Calculator
http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2010/11/updated-windsurf-calculator-online.html
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DelCarpenter



Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 489
Location: Cedar Falls, IA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalaniwavo, this sentence from you raises questions: "I've been at the beach the past few evenings and the seabreeze has been right at that 12-14mph range... and kind of bugging me and itching to get out."

I hope that sentence doesn't mean the conditions at your spot prevent you from enjoying sub-planing sailing in 12-14 mph. If it does, then what is needed is a return to the joy in movement that got you into windsurfing. One of the success builders in long relationships is the ability to remember and return to early sources of joy. Remember and return to the gentle caress of a partner or of a windsurfer on the water and enjoy.

And while you are enjoying that moment of joy, it might turn into something better and you'll get to plane because you went out on the water.
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