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We need a constitutional amendment that no president or his

 
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: We need a constitutional amendment that no president or his Reply with quote

We need a constitutional amendment that no president or if president removed vice president may pardon any person they had financial dealings including campaign donations with during their entire life or the VPs life, any relative that the crime committed while they were in office or while they were running for office, or person they appointed or had in their campaign, white house or transition office. Vice President can not pardon a president if president removed from office for any reason, and cannot pardon any of the former presidents forementioned, and if another VP is put in and same is the VP is removed where new VP move up.

Next amendment, if a campaign colludes to win an election with a foreign power, all appointments and political cases resolved without a jury are void and nil. IE a settlement of 230 million down to 6 million becomes null and void by sessions. Any Supreme court justices and federal judge, prosecutors cabinet are removed. The former president will immediately take charge till the new election takes place.

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real-human



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy was I ahead of the curve on this one too. Even worse trump thinks he can pardon himself....


wpo

Quote:
THE BIG IDEA: “When the president does it, that means it is not illegal,” Richard Nixon said during a televised interview in 1977. But Nixon understood that he could never pardon himself. President Trump may not.
Four of my best-sourced colleagues reported last night: “Some of President Trump’s lawyers are exploring ways to limit or undercut special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s Russia investigation, building a case against what they allege are his conflicts of interest and discussing the president’s authority to grant pardons, according to people familiar with the effort. Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself in connection with the probe, according to one of those people. A second person said Trump’s lawyers have been discussing the president’s pardoning powers among themselves. Trump’s legal team declined to comment on the issue. But one adviser said the president has simply expressed a curiosity in understanding the reach of his pardoning authority…”

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rigitrite



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add constitutional amendment??? I think a guppy has a better chance of sinking a battleship than adding an amendment to the constitution!
Heck, even the dude who shoots and kills his own child cause they got up at night to get a drink of water and he was SURE it was a criminal, still thinks the 2nd amendment is a totally AWESOME idea, and that he should be able to buy all the firepower he can afford.
I'm equally confident that there are at least a million racists in the US who think the 13th amendment is worth repeal.
Let's also not forget that the last amendment to be added to the constitution (in 1992) took 202 years[b] to be ratified!!!
Don't bet on changing the constitution around here: not gonna happen.

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real-human



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigitrite wrote:
Add constitutional amendment??? I think a guppy has a better chance of sinking a battleship than adding an amendment to the constitution!
Heck, even the dude who shoots and kills his own child cause they got up at night to get a drink of water and he was SURE it was a criminal, still thinks the 2nd amendment is a totally AWESOME idea, and that he should be able to buy all the firepower he can afford.
I'm equally confident that there are at least a million racists in the US who think the 13th amendment is worth repeal.
Let's also not forget that the last amendment to be added to the constitution (in 1992) took 202 years[b] to be ratified!!!
Don't bet on changing the constitution around here: not gonna happen.


Have you been checking trumps dis-approval ratings, thats what passing amendments is made of. Record setting... Never in the USA history since we have had polling has a person had lower approval ratings as president.

And that is before he is saying he can pardon himself...

anyway, this is also what brings out new voters and some who sit on the sidelines in masses.

Just as the right wing use abortion amendment to bring out their masses or gun rights.

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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So polls should lead to a constitutional amendment, the same polls that had Hillary winning by a landslide!?!
Fake-human, not only are you not of this planet, you're not even from this universe.
"Earth bunker 1 to Orson, Earth bunker 1 to Orson, come in Orson"

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real-human



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
So polls should lead to a constitutional amendment, the same polls that had Hillary winning by a landslide!?!
Fake-human, not only are you not of this planet, you're not even from this universe.
"Earth bunker 1 to Orson, Earth bunker 1 to Orson, come in Orson"


The polls were correct low IQ30.

Do you know how to understand math?

She had a huge lead till the russians began attacking the sovernty of the USA as requested by trump Jr to start in the summer..

She had a huge lead till Commy made false and misleading statements.

Commys false and misleading statements with the russian attack of the USA is where her poll numbers sank to specifically the daays before the election the margin of error did put trump able to win. But as we know he did not win by the majority of vote.

also remember just on one state alone Wisconsin 200,000 dems were not able to vote though they are americans. because right wingers scrubbed them from voting. Trump won WI by 22k.

It is my belief that any american is being denied due process when they are removed from voting without a conviction in court on a case by case basis. It is the burden of the government to prove you are not an america, Not the burden of an American to prove he is. Damages per person include damage to your family for economic prosperity and justice and there should be damages to all to be paid by the state that falsely accusing an american of not being one. Should result in each of those persons a million dollar settlement from that state.

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real-human



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

funny trump is now saying ... well he has said he did not break any laws with Russia and his family and all others did not.

Is he, in essence, saying by investigating if he can pardon himself,

well how can you pardon for a crime that never occurred? In his delusional mind...

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real-human



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another constitutional amendment, that 50% of all elected positions are to be females.

IE so trump can grab more pussy...

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real-human



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here come the judge, a good read.

as pointed out what if the president in a case pardoned all the white guys in a case and the blacks in the same case he left to hang? Is that abuse of the Pardon and is the judicial system the checks and balance on a trump gone wild hanging pardons to active criminals in the whitehouse. IE violated other provisions of the Constitution.




Judge Considers Defying Trump Over Arpaio Pardon


https://lawnewz.com/high-profile/judge-considers-defying-trump-over-arpaio-pardon/

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real-human



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some good points here. And another point is there are obviously a bunch of indictments for sure otherwise they would not be researching the limits of pardons from what governonors have done and exceeded in the past.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-russia-mueller-pardon-obstruction-of-justice-2017-10

'These are things we've never seen before': The Russia investigation is moving into uncharted territory


Quote:
The FBI's special counsel's team is digging into the limits of President Donald Trump's pardon powers.
Because there is little precedent for governing presidential pardon powers, the special counsel, Robert Mueller, is likely to research state-level cases with elements that could be applied to the Russia investigation.
Experts say Mueller is taking unprecedented steps to ward off efforts by the White House to guard itself against the investigation.
Reports that the FBI's special counsel's team is researching President Donald Trump's pardon power are the latest indication that the Russia investigation is moving into unexplored terrain.

Robert Mueller, who was appointed special counsel in May after Trump fired the FBI Director James Comey, is tasked with examining Russia's interference in the 2016 US election, including whether Trump's campaign colluded with Moscow to tilt the race in his favor.

Bloomberg reported on Tuesday that Michael Dreeben, a seasoned prosecutor working with Mueller, was delving into past presidential pardons as the special counsel lays out his case — in particular, Dreeben is examining the limits of Trump's pardon power.

There is no federal precedent governing those limits, so Dreeben, a veteran Department of Justice attorney who has argued more than 100 cases before the Supreme Court, is most likely digging into state-level cases with elements that could be extrapolated as they relate to Trump's executive authority.

Like the president, governors also have the authority to grant pardons — and Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor, told Business Insider that it was possible Dreeben was looking into state-level case law going back to the country's early years to find instances in which a court found a governor's pardon problematic.

"Dreeben's probably spending all day researching those cases, and he's probably going to find some analogy that Mueller can use" in case Trump issues a preemptive pardon or one that stymies the investigation, Mariotti said.

Mariotti added that the revelation was "really something" and one of the biggest developments in the investigation so far.

'At some point, a court might have to step in'
Donald Trump
Donald Trump. AP Photo/Evan Vucci
Trump's pardon power became a subject of interest after The Washington Post reported in July that the president had asked his advisers whether he could pardon aides, family members, or possibly himself as the Russia investigation ramped up.

In addition to Trump's campaign, Mueller's investigation also encompasses several of the president's close associates, including his campaign chairman, Paul Manafort; his former national security adviser, Michael Flynn; his senior adviser and son-in-law, Jared Kushner; and his son Donald Trump Jr.

The Constitution grants the president very broad pardon powers relating to federal crimes — something Trump has pointed out.

"While all agree the U. S. President has the complete power to pardon, why think of that when only crime so far is LEAKS against us. FAKE NEWS," Trump tweeted in July.

Trump's statements and actions indicate that "we have every reason to think that this president will not hesitate to use any means at his disposal to avoid scrutiny of himself, his family, and his inner circle," said Claire Finkelstein, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School.

The president in August pardoned Joe Arpaio, the Arizona sheriff who was convicted of criminal contempt in July for violating the terms of a 2011 court order in a racial-profiling case. Arpaio was an early and ardent advocate for Trump on the campaign trail, and Trump told a crowd at a rally in Arizona shortly before granting the pardon that Arpaio would be "just fine."

"Imagine a circumstance where Trump pardons one of his associates in the Russia probe — that associate is then compelled to testify, but they refuse to do so, they're then held in contempt, and Trump pardons them again," Mariotti said. "At some point, a court might have to step in because the president would be defeating the lawful function of our criminal justice system."

Experts are also exploring whether Trump could pardon someone if doing so would fit into a pattern of obstruction of justice.

Finkelstein laid out a scenario in which parallels could be drawn to the circumstances surrounding Comey's firing in May.

James Comey
James Comey. Drew Angerer/Getty Images
The White House initially said Comey was dismissed because of his handling of the investigation into former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's use of private email, but Trump later told NBC's Lester Holt that "this Russia thing" had been a factor in his decision.

Comey also told the Senate Intelligence Committee in June that before firing him, Trump asked him to drop the Russia investigation and the FBI's inquiry into Flynn, who was forced to resign as national security adviser when it emerged that he had misled the vice president about his contacts with Russians during the transition period.

While the president has the power to fire the FBI director, he does not have the right to do so if his intent is to cover up an investigation into whether he or his associates committed misdeeds. Whether Trump had "corrupt intent" when he fired Comey is the basis of Mueller's obstruction-of-justice investigation.

"One could make a parallel argument here and say that if the president's motive in issuing a pardon is to avoid scrutiny of his or his associates' actions, that constitutes an overstepping of his constitutional authority," Finkelstein said.

There is, however, one key difference between the two scenarios: Trump's power to grant pardons is explicitly listed in the Constitution, while his power to fire officials is implicit in his right to govern as head of the executive branch.

'There's very little precedent for this'
Jon Michaels, a professor at the UCLA School of Law, said Tuesday that it was becoming clear that by probing the questions surrounding Trump's pardon power, Mueller's team was "being very strategic" and was "trying to preempt efforts that have the effect of insulating the administration from the investigations."

The lengths to which the special counsel's team is going to get ahead of the White House are unusual, said Jens David Ohlin, a vice dean at Cornell Law School who's an expert in criminal law.

"These definitely are not normal or typical prosecution strategies," he said. But, he added, "this is no usual investigation," and "there's very little precedent for this."

Mariotti agreed and said that in his long career as a federal prosecuto

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