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Let's improve our small board quick tack aka fast tack
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18693

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctuna wrote:
if you want to progress gong around the front is a must.

Ya gotta define "progress" first ... really. Is the goal -- the measure of success -- to stay upwind, to achieve a measure of freestyle prowess, to stay dry while turning around during a lull, to adapt to Hatchery crowds on July 4th, other? IOW, is "going around the front" its own reward, or does it serve other, more functional goals difficult to achieve any other way? At its simplest, what am I missing by never even considering tacking on a shortboard?
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2620

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Troll Reply with quote

Troll alert. Who else would jump into a small tack discussion & offer up a light wind pivot jibe as a solution & than say you need to explain why you need to tack?

Please note that the Troll sails in the Gorge where the current takes you upwind.

Coachg
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 816
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So boring to keep doing the same moves forever.
We know there is and equal and opposite reaction most times
from isobars posts.


Last edited by ctuna on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18693

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coach, enough with the shitty false accusations. I consider trolling and false accusations to be the two lowest behaviors in all of personal internet communication, and never engage in either.

Nor did I ask anyone explain their need to tack. I clearly asked ctuna to explain what he meant by stating that progress requires tacking. Progress in what ... Going places? Freestyle? U-turning? I honestly do not understand how tacking has any significance in anything but tacking.

How many times have I explained ... probably well over a dozen ... that there is no perceptible current where I sail in the Gorge and that I spent decades sailing in lakes with zero current?

For at least the tenth or 12th time you have gotten so hung up in trying to find a way to criticize and accuse me that you've completely ignored what I've actually said. It does not look good on someone in your profession.

ctuna just answered my question with "So boring to keep doing the same moves forever". i.e., "I wanna". Thank you, Charlie, for a valid, direct, impersonal, non-accusatory answer.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1702

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
is "going around the front" its own reward, or does it serve other, more functional goals difficult to achieve any other way? At its simplest, what am I missing by never even considering tacking on a shortboard?


1. Tacking gets the sailor upwind faster. It's true that a very tight pivot jibe will lose little ground in comparison to a mediocre tack (though it does lose some) but a good tack trounces the good jibe.

2. The best practical demonstration of this is by excellent wavesailors, who have both transitions mastered, and use tacks to catch waves that they'd otherwise miss.

3. What you're also missing is the chance to expand your set of windsurfing skills. You may be content to not expand yours. But aside from the practical value of tacking (helping to get upwind) there are the added benefits of pushing ones' self to try new things and develop the finesse to accomplish them...finesse which is valuable in all aspects of windsurfing.

_________________
Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 816
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old school moves that require going around the mast
Back winded jibe , Donkey jibe, Sail 360's ,Flip Jibe
New School moves there are so many and I don't know the names
of a lot of them , names like Kono and Kulo come to mind.
I would be happier if I could do all the old school stuff for a start.
I noticed that in the last Waddel contest(last one they had waves for) that tacking was the done most of the time and not any sort of jibe when getting position for the next wave. Somewhere there is a thread on that contest.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18693

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it with "So boring to keep doing the same moves forever." It's about freestyling ... aka "I wanna" ... as opposed to "I gotta", as in waterstarting or turning around. That's all I was asking.
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mauiguy



Joined: 18 Feb 1997
Posts: 57
Location: Maui

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is fine if someone doesn't want to learn to tack, but why question those who want to learn?

Other than instructors, professionals, equipment testers and designers, and anyone else who makes money from windsurfing, the rest of us windsurf for fun. Even if the tack is not a necessary or useful move for everyone, many people want to learn new moves for fun. These can be variations on jibes and tacks, old and new freestyle, wave moves, jumps, and jump tricks. For a lot of us, learning something new keeps the sport fresh.

This discussion is about learning to tack. If someone doesn't want to tack, that is fine, but if he doesn't have anything useful to add to the discussion, he should stay out of it.

I'm not into racing, but I don't question those who are. I love wavesailing, but don't question those who don't. I like jumping but, again, don't question those who don't. It's all about having fun-however we do it.

As to utility of tacking, many times in dying winds or in currents that carry me downwind, the tack has gotten me back where I started from. Many times in wave sailing when heading out toward the waves, I will see a nice swell with nobody on it yet. But there is someone else heading out directly downwind from me, so I can't jibe on the swell. A tack puts me on the swell with right of way to then ride the wave. After the wave, a tack gets you upwind to the next wave faster.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3137

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So much of this is silliness. We offer opinions and those that read them may or may not consider them valuable for their particular situation. Criticizing our fellow windsurfers because their opinion may not fit another's view point serves little purpose.

I have posted opposing opinions at times and can do so without ridiculing the poster that I oppose. It's honest debate, or maybe just different circumstances where both are correct.

Regardless, civil discourse would be desirable.

Fast tacks - the only time I needed them was for slalom racing where the wind changed and I couldn't make a mark. Not falling on two quick tacks on a small board was critical for a good finish. Other than that, I practice them occasionally with varying success, just to put another skill in my basket, even if not really needed.

Have fun out there!


Last edited by techno900 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1064

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Troll Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Troll alert. Who else would jump into a small tack discussion & offer up a light wind pivot jibe as a solution & than say you need to explain why you need to tack?

Please note that the Troll sails in the Gorge where the current takes you upwind.

Coachg

Correct call.

Manuel gives plenty of reasons why working on the fast tack makes sense. To add one: it makes it easier to go places, and be confident you can come back.
We had at least a couple of dozen windsurfers out at Kalmus the last couple of days. Some of them love the big bumps we get at high tide, but many do not, much preferring flat water. But they refrain from sailing downwind half a mile to much smoother water because they are afraid they won't make it back upwind; some of them have actually had near-traumatic experiences trying to come back from Egg Island since all their sailing is on a beam reach, and all their turns are jibes. A visiting kiter yesterday actually asked "why is everyone always windsurfing right in front, when there are such great spots nearby?". Lack of tacking skills is a bit part of the answer. More skills, more options, more fun.

Manuel also sails mostly in waves. Watch any PWA wave contest, and you'll see that the vast majority of turns are tacks - for the reasons Manu mentioned. Of course, those are just pro windsurfers, not "many hundred thousand miles" isobars. Quite ironic to see isobars, who frequently has advocated the use of sinkers and extremely low volume boards, question the use of sinkers.

My tip to anyone interested in improving the fast tack (and/or other aspects of their windsurfing): get the Tricktionary 3! The name is a bit misleading - "Windsurfing Bible" really describes it better. It has hundreds of pages of detailed instructions for basics such as planing, jibes, and fast tacks from the world's best windsurfers and instructors, including Andy Brandt. The previous version was good, but largely trick-oriented. The third installment is a huge improvement - a must-have for anyone who wants to improve his windsurfing.
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