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Let's improve our small board quick tack aka fast tack
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show us where I questioned or challenged anyone’s desire to tack or the validity of their quest.

On the contrary, I asked a cold, technical, impersonal question, in half a dozen ways to make my question clear. I further explained several times and in multiple ways that ALL I was asking about was the utility of going around the front of the mast … why something vaguely labeled “progress” requires it. I carefully avoided questioning the validity of such a quest, just as I have many times in discussions of other sailing styles and objectives.

We have two ways of learning from this forum: reading, and asking topical questions. I did both. I also contributed an alternative to tacking in case its purpose is losing minimal ground when turning around … a topic we beat to death without consensus last year. Besides, iW data suggest that for every active poster in this forum there are as many as 25 lurkers for each poster. They, too, want answers, but aren’t willing to run the gauntlet to ask them, especially considering the grief some people incur by asking honest, relevant, impersonal questions.

I make it a point to try to learn something new in every session. However, I seek useful and/or fun skills, I have no interest in canned freestyle tricks, and we’ve debated the utilitarian value of tacks to death elsewhere. There are many other ways to stay upwind, and I sail upwind MUCH more often and farther than the vast majority of sailors most places I sail, current or no current, east or west winds -- and I'm on small wave boards with B&J or wave fins -- so that is not an incentive for me to learn to tack a small board.

Someone said tacks are vital to progress, and I wanted to know what I am missing. So shoot me.

I do not understand why so many people feel so compelled to make technical discussions so GD personal.

sasussman wrote:
It is fine if someone doesn't want to learn to tack, but why question those who want to learn?

… learning something new keeps the sport fresh.

This discussion is about learning to tack. If someone doesn't want to tack, that is fine, but if he doesn't have anything useful to add to the discussion, he should stay out of it.

I'm not into racing, but I don't question those who are. I love wavesailing, but don't question those who don't. I like jumping but, again, don't question those who don't. It's all about having fun-however we do it.

As to utility of tacking, many times in dying winds or in currents that carry me downwind, the tack has gotten me back where I started from. Many times in wave sailing when heading out toward the waves, I will see a nice swell with nobody on it yet. But there is someone else heading out directly downwind from me, so I can't jibe on the swell. A tack puts me on the swell with right of way to then ride the wave. After the wave, a tack gets you upwind to the next wave faster.


Last edited by isobars on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Troll Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
Quite ironic to see isobars, who frequently has advocated the use of sinkers and extremely low volume boards, question the use of sinkers.

Ironic? I'd say honest and consistent, considering the many times I've said that on the flat water and in the low winds of Manuel's post, why bother with a sinker (unless, of course, the objective is freestyle on a sinker)?
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 209

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Troll Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Troll alert. Who else would jump into a small tack discussion & offer up a light wind pivot jibe as a solution & than say you need to explain why you need to tack?

Coachg


It has a compulsive need to always be right. I`m sure there is a scientific term for this psychological disorder.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that isobars is so out-of-school on this topic. Things shouldn't be about him, but that's his goal.
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have these problems with tacking:

Getting comfortable carving upwind. I noticed Manuel is carving upwind, still in the harness, back foot already moved up adjacent to front straps, fairly erect. Different from what is usually taught?

When I go around I sink the nose and tend to get thrown off the front. The faster I'm going, the earlier I go, the worse it is. How do I lighten up that first step?

On the new side (if I ever get there) I usually fall in on my butt.

The last time I contemplated tacking the mast seemed so far away
I didn't even try.

Any advice appreciated.

fxop
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LUCARO



Joined: 07 Dec 1997
Posts: 661

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fxop wrote:
When I go around I sink the nose and tend to get thrown off the front. The faster I'm going, the earlier I go, the worse it is. How do I lighten up that first step?

On the new side (if I ever get there) I usually fall in on my butt.

fxop


Ditto
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 1125
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to do that to and sometimes still do .
The thing is there can be no sudden weight shifts to the nose.
You have to have shifted and balanced out the weight
so that your weight is already forward and the board doesn't
see front to back weight shifts. And you really should go around while your
still planning if at all possible. Look at the Jem Hall tips in the link
to Jem Halls tacking tips. He suggests sail all the way back and hips
forward. If you are pushing off with your back foot you are already dead.

If you look at those links I put up at several places from 4 or 5 different
well known outfits and instructors they all pretty much say the same thing.
You have to be unhooked to start with.
I would get used to slow planning out of the straps and slightly forward
to ease the transition.
The boom camera that Manuel uses makes it pretty hard to see whats going
on.

http://www.jemhall.com/technique/item/carve-tack.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N42o1T2D-5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDp2kcyYnuE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUMoeQdbpA8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DKJ5pjCQvM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIYlZd5XfTc
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3546

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Tack Reply with quote

fxop,

It sounds like your feet may be too wide & you are lunging towards the nose when you shift your weight to the front foot instead of standing up on the front foot. Make sure your back foot is touching the front straps and when you bring your back foot forward stand tall-jump up, don't lunge forward. It also helps if you wrap your front foot around the mast base & if you can point the front foot towards the back of the board to give you a landing point closer to the mast base when you bring the back foot forward and place it in front of the front heel of the front foot.

Get a Gopro & place it on your mast pointing down. Very useful to help correct tacking mistakes.

Coachg
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fxop wrote:
I have these problems with tacking:

Getting comfortable carving upwind. I noticed Manuel is carving upwind, still in the harness, back foot already moved up adjacent to front straps, fairly erect. Different from what is usually taught?

When I go around I sink the nose and tend to get thrown off the front. The faster I'm going, the earlier I go, the worse it is. How do I lighten up that first step?


A few things to add:

1. When you carve up (you should be unhooked, with your front hand about a foot down the mast) your weight first comes in towards the board, then swings forward. This is subtle but helps lots...learned this from a Peter Hart article.

2. Use the mast to apply some downward pressure (mast base pressure) as you go around the mast.

3. Keep your weight somewhat back, so that when your front foot goes to the nose you're still partially using the mast to hold you up. If you put full body weight in front of the mast on anything but a wide large board, you're going to sink.

4. See CoachG's notes about front foot placement detail (wrapped around the mast pointing towards back of the board.) It matters.

5. Think "step light".

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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

I make it a point to try to learn something new in every session. However, I seek useful and/or fun skills, I have no interest in canned freestyle tricks


Canned freestyle tricks? LOL. There are no canned transitions, tricks or skills in windsurfing. If you think tacking is freestyle, you must be very new to windsurfing. Tacking is a fundamental transition in all forms of windsurfing. And for that matter, sailboat sailing. Any advanced windsurfer will tell you that it's the most efficient way to transition upwind. As a finesse move, it requires substantial skill on sinker boards.

Regardless, do tell: What are some useful and/or fun skills you've learned in sessions in the last five or ten years?

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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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