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Let's improve our small board quick tack aka fast tack
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LUCARO



Joined: 07 Dec 1997
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctuna wrote:
I used to do that to and sometimes still do .
The thing is there can be no sudden weight shifts to the nose.
You have to have shifted and balanced out the weight
so that your weight is already forward and the board doesn't
see front to back weight shifts. And you really should go around while your
still planning if at all possible. Look at the Jem Hall tips in the link
to Jem Halls tacking tips. He suggests sail all the way back and hips
forward. If you are pushing off with your back foot you are already dead.

If you look at those links I put up at several places from 4 or 5 different
well known outfits and instructors they all pretty much say the same thing.
You have to be unhooked to start with.
I would get used to slow planning out of the straps and slightly forward
to ease the transition.
The boom camera that Manuel uses makes it pretty hard to see whats going
on.

http://www.jemhall.com/technique/item/carve-tack.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N42o1T2D-5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDp2kcyYnuE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUMoeQdbpA8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DKJ5pjCQvM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIYlZd5XfTc


Thanks! sounds like I need to
1) shift my hips forward pre-tack
2) pull the rig towards the old side as I step around
3) wide stance and low once on the other side
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
My most frequent issue is getting stuck on the other side. I can move quick enough, but once on the other side, I fail to move my weight back (front foot stays by the mast base) and the nose sinks. I Just have to focus.


The "save" to that is to not sheet in the sail at all. Even as the nose is pointing down, catch your breath (quickly) and take another step aft. When the nose is down you must put zero power in the sail.

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question:

When you are going around, are you using the inertia of the raked back sail to help you get around and weight back?

I've been told yes and no by very good teachers.

(I know I shouldn't say "going around")

I've also been taught not to rake the sail back very much because it gets heavy.

fxop
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 816
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of raking the sail back is getting it out of the way so you can go around
and it helps you to be further back on the board and less likely to sink the nose.
Also to go upwind its kind of obvious the sail needs to go back for steering purposes.
Did you watch the Peter Hart Video. As far as being heavy if you have modern
rig that's under 6.0 they are super light.
(Skinny Masts are easier to grab than standard diameter )
Inertia shouldn't be different between you the board and the sail or physics
says you would be going in different directions.(or at different rates)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi0yr7kr5fWAhWpj1QKHXffBJIQtwIILjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWMyKOoEtFOw&usg=AFQjCNGSaMzih-dcZB26iw8k_H1nivr5Kw
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In light winds, I am absolutely "playing" with the inertia of the sail hence why I stretch my arm before yanking it to the other side. I pull as hard as I can and sometimes I miss it on the other side, oops Very Happy ! It's important to yank but not pull the mast towards the nose of the board. Again picture going over the mast foot and not in front of around it. It can feel like you are falling towards the back but you won't.

One really important thing in windsurfing that has been the most helpful to me is to experience the extremes ourselves. Then many boxes will get ticked. Get outside of that comfort zone especially at the beginning of the session. Then move onto free sailing.

When planing it's different. The board feels solid so I can "walk" on it and simply rake the sail back, with the clew nearly dragging on the water depowered. In strong winds I believe the sail can be raked back a lot. It's harder to recover from having the sail / body combo too far forward than too far back (I don't even think it can be too far back?).

Anyway play with things and report back on what you felt. In most moves most of us are experiencing the same feel through the learning curve. Like we understand how to use and control our body to remain balanced in extreme situations, fascinating! Darn I love our sport!

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18650

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manuel wrote:
One really important thing in windsurfing that has been the most helpful to me is to experience the extremes ourselves. Then many boxes will get ticked. Get outside of that comfort zone especially at the beginning of the session. Then move onto free sailing.


Or spend the whole session ... or every session in the whole day ... outside that comfort zone. That, to me, IS freesailing. I get the farthest outside my comfort zone after sunset (wind permitting) because I know that 1] (in most places) the fun grinds to a halt in about half an hour and 2] there's room on the water to cut loose without hitting anyone. There will be time enough for comfort zones when we're permanently bed-ridden, and I'm guessing that won't be very comfortable for most of us. If it were, we'd get out of bed.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:


Or spend the whole session ... or every session in the whole day ... outside that comfort zone. That, to me, IS freesailing.


Are you going to do this yourself? Would tacking be outside of your comfort zone? Trying an elementary freestyle move (tacking isn't freestyle. Neither is basic jibing). Get yourself out of a rut.

isobars wrote:
is "going around the front" its own reward, or does it serve other, more functional goals difficult to achieve any other way? At its simplest, what am I missing by never even considering tacking on a shortboard?


You're missing both superior upwind technique AND getting outside your comfort zone. Tacking could be just what the doctor ordered. Or try carving a downwind 360...that may be more to your liking.

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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 816
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep tacking is harder than jibing or even duck jibing.
The other thing that I reviewed when looking at old
ABK videos(and trictionairy 3) was putting your elbow down on the sail hand and loading up your hands to keep your feet light . Also the sail flick , with the
rear or sail hand to get it to go across .
It may not be freestyle but its not easy on a sinker .
the timing and technique has to pretty much flawless.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3125

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peconicpuffin said:
Quote:
Are you going to do this yourself? Would tacking be outside of your comfort zone? Trying an elementary freestyle move (tacking isn't freestyle. Neither is basic jibing). Get yourself out of a rut.


I would only say that in the gorge (I have only 15 days there), tacking would be tough unless you find flat water near shore. The swells and short period between them would make practice a real pain in the ass. Plus as has been mentioned, the current keeps you upwind so there is never a "need" to tack.

Just another balance skill to put in your pocket if you choose to practice.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18650

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
in the gorge (I have only 15 days there) ... Plus as has been mentioned, the current keeps you upwind so there is never a "need" to tack.


And as has been mentioned at least as many times in response,
1. "The Gorge" -- the thermally boosted lower Columbia) -- is >200 miles long. The river remains sailable and windy for another 100+ miles, and its direction of flow covers about 180 degrees of the compass rose. It has well over 70 launches (I've launched at 70). There are thus very few valid generalities about it.

2. There is no perceptible current in much of it (the river is usually too wide and deep out east).

3. In east winds the current flushes us downwind.

Besides, there are MANY other ways to stay upwind in almost any ordinary (i.e., rapids don't count) body of water, as proved by thousands of short-board, often sinker, sailors who have never even tried to tack since their longboard days. The insistence that crept into the thread as it evolved that tacking is necessary indicates a narrow grasp of the challenge and its solutions.
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