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There's flooding down in Texas
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: There's flooding down in Texas Reply with quote

First the righties here deny the basic science that more heat in the gulf made the Houston floods substantially worse. But they have been strangely silent on the benefits of the "pure" market in preventing and reacting to these problems.

This is only the first mega-flood of the global warming era. To be sure, the anti-science agenda of the Trumpists, inside and outside the Republican party, will make it all worse. Texas, and particularly Houston, prides itself as a libertarian society, where individuals can do what they want with their property without government interference. There is no zoning, and the sparse regulatory structure that does exist has allowed development in harm's way in a haphazard manner. http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Weirdest-images-from-Houston-s-lack-of-zoning-laws-9171688.php

I'm a civil engineer, and we take protecting human lives seriously. So we are a bit frustrated when local governments who rely on developers for campaign funding approve development in flood prone areas. Houston is very low, a large basin, where sprawl and conversion of wetlands has increased the potential for flooding. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/harvey-why-is-houston-so-prone-to-major-flooding/ And this is certrainly not the first expensive flood--"Tropical Storm Allison in 2001 caused nearly $5 billion in damage. The Memorial Day floods of 2015 dumped almost 12 inches of rain in 10 hours. And last year, 1,200 people were rescued after a flood on Tax Day."

Then there is the Trump administration, led by a greedy and dishonest developer eager to transfer costs for things like flood protection to the government rather than be paid for as part of the cost of development. Two weeks before the floods, Trump signed an executive order increasing the risk of flooding. https://qz.com/1063897/hurricane-harvey-two-weeks-ago-trump-signed-an-executive-order-making-future-infrastructure-more-susceptible-to-flooding/

So let's go back to the libertarian principle--people should be free to do what they please with their property, even if it entails risk, and the magic of the market will make everything right. The trouble is, the so-called conservatives are at the head of the line asking for bailouts for their foolish decisions--look at Ted Cruz and governor, who opposed flood relief for Sandy victims, line up at the Federal trough. We will find out that many in Houston did not have flood insurance, even the subsidized variety provided in the National Flood Insurance Program. We already know that climate change and low premiums have swamped that program, and local governments don't due what is necessary to prevent recurrence. So the bail outs, now sought by those who opposed bank bailouts, create a moral hazard.

Over the remaining part of my life, we will see the costs of climate change and flood control dwarf the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The righties continue to deny it has anything to do with carbon dioxide. Heads deep in the sand.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flooding in Texas, wow, who knew!?!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Montage: Media Politicize Hurricane Harvey, Blame Global Warming, Mock GOP
Aug 29, 2017

Members of the major media — who apparently moonlight as climate scientists — are already politicizing Hurricane Harvey, insisting the storm proves the validity of the global warming theory, and mocking Republicans who disagree. 
Even as many of the actual scientists who appear on these shows have been noticeably more circumspect in pinning blame on global warming for the flooding in Houston, the media isn't letting that skepticism rain on their parade.

CNN's Jeffrey Toobin, for one, mocked Republicans who question the global warming theory.
"Man-made climate change is a myth, the Republican Party is united on that," Toobin said. "You know, climate change is part of this story. We focus on the heroism, quite appropriately, of the people who are trying to save lives. But why disasters like this occur and their intensity is the part of the problem."
The New Yorker's Ryan Lizza said Hurricane Harvey will help Democrats make the case against President Trump's proposed budget, which calls for the construction of a border wall, and does not increase funds for global warming-related projects.
"His budget that he presented to Congress cut a lot of programs, or wanted to cut a lot of programs, that are helpful in a natural disaster like that," Lizza said. "He's also threatened to shut down the government if the border wall is not built. Well, in the wake of a natural disaster like this, the federal government is leading the effort, is Trump really going to stick a promise to shut down the government?"
"Everyone saying this is the storm of the century, the 500-year-storm; twelve years ago it was Katrina. We've had now three storms now in 12 years that were as bad as this," Lizza continued. "And a lot of Democrats will say, 'you know, climate change is actually, this is the kind of flooding you would predict based on the climate change model.'" 

MSNBC's Rachel Maddow likewise pointed to there being six major storms in the Gulf since 1989 as evidence for the climage change theory. 
"Since 1989," she said, "what they call a 100-year storm — a storm that’s only supposed to happen once in 100 years -- since 1989 that’s happened six times in Houston." 
CNN's Ron Brownstein also joined the chorus, saying "there is no doubt" global warming is to blame.
"Scientists are reluctant to attribute any individual storm to a change in climate," he said Tuesday. "But in my cnn.com column today I quote the former head of NOAA saying this is a preview of the future. There is no doubt that climate change, particularly because of warming the ocean waters and the gulf waters, makes storms like this more common." 
The BBC's Laura Trevelyan also reported matter-of-factly that global warming creates humidity, which creates hurricanes: "Of course we do have a changing climate we do have warming waters. With more warming waters, you get more moisture coming into the atmosphere and what hurricanes absolutely love is moisture because that gives them rainfall. And that’s what’s happened in this situation with Hurricane Harvey."

But some climate scientists disagree that Trevelyan, saying that humidity actually dampens the propensity for tropical storms like Harvey. 
"The problem with this is that the ability of evaporation to drive tropical storms relies not only on temperature but humidity as well, and calls for drier, less humid air. Claims for starkly higher temperatures are based upon there being more humidity, not less — hardly a case for more storminess with global warming," MIT's Richard Lindzen wrote in the Wall Street Journal.

https://news.grabien.com/story-montage-media-politicize-hurricane-harvey-blame-global-warmi
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9293

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been going on since the beginning of time..One of my favs Stevie Ray Vaughan

https://youtu.be/wVjdMLAMbM0
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To ultimately help pay for the clean up and reconstruction in Houston and other affected communities in Texas, one wonders whether Texans will step up and institute a state income tax system and take some responsibility for their fate. Unfortunately, it will probably never happen. Too easy to send the bills the federal government and let the American taxpayers pick up the tab.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You people are despicable. Your fellow citizens are suffering and dying. Your response..........try to score cheap political points. You've lost all perspective.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Santayana says, those who pay no attention to history are deemed to repeat it. Meanwhile, those who favored continued cuts to government--including Trump, who proposed decimating the Coast Guard, don't seem to notice that it is government leading the rescue effort. Never in doubt, occasionally right.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do feel it is despicable to score political points over a disaster. However, just a bit of listening to the interviews of local mayors and officials in the affected town sheds light on just how political even the victims can be.

That said. I don't believe pointing out deficiencies in planning and construction as a result of under-regulated growth and development, rampant in Texas, is inappropriate or despicable.

As a trained Civil Engineer I know that real change in construction and development regulations and design are stimulated as a result of disasters. This can ultimately save thousands of lives. The Northridge earthquake in Southern California had structural engineers clamoring for updated design and code techniques. Yes, we took advantage of a sensitive political climate to accomplish this. The result put a vast number of people at reduced future risk.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB--anyone not on the far right has had to put up with self-righteous bleating about how Texas is superior to California (lower taxes and regulations) and everyone is moving there. There is a phenomenon in local government--not during my term. Development in Texas has been irresponsible, with local officials pocketing developers money and counting on the problems showing up after their term is over. Responsible regulation would not have prevented this flood--but it would have involved avoiding or floodproofing the most vulnerable areas. But hypocrisy, even more than victimhood, defines the right these days.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe, with so much discussion coming from the right, and particularly from Donald Trump about all the "Fake News" coming from major mainstream media, should we be believing what we are seeing and hearing about what's happening down in Texas?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
I don't believe pointing out deficiencies in planning and construction as a result of under-regulated growth and development, rampant in Texas, is inappropriate or despicable.

However singling out Texas is, throw in fires and landslides, I can think of 48 other states who have also been guilty of this, Colorado included. I can't speak for Alaska, but I'm sure they've had their problems on a smaller scale.
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