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Does the board help make the jibe
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ImmigrantJesus



Joined: 02 Jun 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KMF - agree Jem is a great resource and his carving jibe techniques are very well explained - I would also recommend practicing not switching feet right a way as a way to teach oneself how not to overturn in the jibe - which is the cause of a lot of problems for people. It also forces one to have correct body position and correct sail transition going into and coming out of the jibe. If done right one can sail away with speed "switchfoot" - do that a few times and then the step jibe will fall into place even better.
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ImmigrantJesus wrote:
I would also recommend practicing not switching feet right a way as a way to teach oneself how not to overturn in the jibe - which is the cause of a lot of problems for people. It also forces one to have correct body position and correct sail transition going into and coming out of the jibe. If done right one can sail away with speed "switchfoot" - do that a few times and then the step jibe will fall into place even better.


Gotta completely disagree with this. Learning to jibe in high winds is easier flipping the sail first but inevitably leads to horrible habits and is a habit harder to break than cigarettes. I don`t know anyone who has learned this way and been able to switch over to a step jibe. I`m sure there are but I haven`t come across any. I pity all the Gorge jibers who still can`t plane out of a jibe after sailing for 20 years or can`t sail clew first (gotta step jibe to do this) or jibe when the wind dies. Even if you can plane out of them it`s just not as efficient as step jibing. Learn to step jibe first! Easy to learn the other way later.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can't do the step jibe you'll be swimming Switch clew first no problem.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2253
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I gotta completely disagree here. I step jibe when the wind is light to stay
Planing out of the jibe in low wind, but if the wind is even moderate, switching your feet after the sail is simpler and does not disrupt your carve for a smoother cleaner ripp'n fast jibe (for me and many Gorge sailors, at least at the launches I sail)
philodog wrote:
ImmigrantJesus wrote:
I would also recommend practicing not switching feet right a way as a way to teach oneself how not to overturn in the jibe - which is the cause of a lot of problems for people. It also forces one to have correct body position and correct sail transition going into and coming out of the jibe. If done right one can sail away with speed "switchfoot" - do that a few times and then the step jibe will fall into place even better.


Gotta completely disagree with this. Learning to jibe in high winds is easier flipping the sail first but inevitably leads to horrible habits and is a habit harder to break than cigarettes. I don`t know anyone who has learned this way and been able to switch over to a step jibe. I`m sure there are but I haven`t come across any. I pity all the Gorge jibers who still can`t plane out of a jibe after sailing for 20 years or can`t sail clew first (gotta step jibe to do this) or jibe when the wind dies. Even if you can plane out of them it`s just not as efficient as step jibing. Learn to step jibe first! Easy to learn the other way later.
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious, which did you learn first? It seems people who learn a step jibe first can adapt to a carve jibe but not vice versa so easily.
My experience is that with a smooth step jibe you are not disrupting the carve. The force to the rail just switches from one foot to the other once you get proficient at them. The big difference comes when it is time to power up the sail on the new reach. A step jiber has their feet in place ready to take the power when you sheet in. The carve jiber has to take a second to switch their feet before they can power up unless they are very advanced and can sail powered up sailing toeside which 90% cannot do. This delay in powering up is what causes many jibes to fall off a plane.
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StillSailin



Joined: 02 May 2001
Posts: 53
Location: Portland/Vancouver

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Does the board help make the jibe Reply with quote

Thanks philodog.
Years ago I started getting some jibes when I hopped: both feet at the same time. I would flip the sail and then hop and then catch the boom and hope for the best. Kind of hit and miss. I saw references to the heel to toe technique a few years ago and then a fellow (Jibber) in S Padre, kidded me about the hop and suggested swiveling my hips. The Mike Fick link from Isobars mentioned the hip "bump". I have had good success with that when I remember it.
Recently working on the sail flip: flip sooner and getting mast in the right place.
It was just one of those days recently when things weren't working so thought I'd get some ideas.
Comments are very helpful and much appreciated. Thanks
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that helped me huge in sail flips is thinking of the whole rig as an upside down triangle with the mast base being the point. If you were on land and the rig weighed 100 pounds it could be held up easily if it were perfectly balanced. You could also flip it easily if you kept it balanced. But one inch off and it will fall like a rock. Our rigs don`t weigh 100 pounds and you can`t just spin it like a top but the idea is to keep it balanced as much as possible. When you flip the sail picture putting it in the same spot as you would if you were trying to balance it on land with light wind. The mast would be across the board into the wind a bit. The important part is don`t put ANY pull on the sail until it is in that position and your hands are in their regular sailing position. Now you can fully and quickly power up without getting overpowered. Many folks use the boom to help their balance which screws up the efficiency of the sail flip. Good jibers make it look effortless because the sail just goes from one balanced position to another balanced position. No fighting with the weight of the rig. Hope this makes sense.
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I`m on my soapbox, another thing to help the sail flip and sailing in general is to learn clew first sailing. Carve around, switch your feet but don`t flip the sail. It takes a while to get used (tip #1: it only works well sailing well off the wind, like on a swell. Tip #2: your hands need to be farther back on the boom than normal, particularly the mast hand) but is an essential skill for swell riding. Once you get used to it you can sail fully powered off the wind and flip the sail at your leisure. For some reason clew first sailing is more powerful than regular sailing way off the wind. Can`t figure that one out but it works.
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StillSailin



Joined: 02 May 2001
Posts: 53
Location: Portland/Vancouver

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Does the board help make the jibe Reply with quote

Yes! Makes total sense. Thanks
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ImmigrantJesus



Joined: 02 Jun 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philo - you said it yourself - more advanced! Your response showed me you still have not fully progressed through all of the dynamics of a jibe. I merely suggested the process of getting the footwork out of the way as a means to help get everything else in line. If you think stepping during a jibe has no impact on the carve of the board and that you need to do it to "power-up" then you have some work of your own to do!
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