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Best performance board with a daggerboard?
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windrockwater



Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Best performance board with a daggerboard? Reply with quote

Yup thats the question. I windsurf in the Northeast. The wind is finicky. There are many days i have to decide between my big long board (with a centerboard) or my shorter board that has no centerboard.

More often than not, i use the long board, enjoy some downwind sailing and then have to schlog back upwind. With the centerboard its not a problem. If i am using my short board, things can get dicey. And sometimes its just a bummer that after some fun runs i have to really work at getting back to the launch.

So, whats a 'high performance' freeride/freemove board that is sporty and fun for a fairly big dude but also has a centerboard for when that is needed? Does such a beast exist?
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2015
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Best performance board with a daggerboard? Reply with quote

They used to make boards like this back in the early 90s and they were
called transition boards. I rode a few, and frankly they weren't good for
either displacement hull or planning conditions. I did have a BIC Rumba
that was about 150 ltrs and shaped like a short board, but had a retractable
centerboard. It was OK in planning mode with big sails.

Anyway, if you want a sporty board that has a functional centerboard, I'd
recommend a Kona. It is a longboard, but, they are pretty surfy, ride
well in planning mode, and jibe reasonably well also. Additionally, the old
90s raceboards (f2 Lightning, Fanatic Ultra and Mega cats, even a BIC Bamba) have pretty
good performance in planning mode and are jibable (if you're not in a
hurry to come about). The current crop of boards available as you describe
are mostly beginner designs, though their outlines are shortboard, so maybe something like a Starboard or Exocet might make you happy, but
I'd try and scrounge a ride on a Kona 1st and see if that doesn't suit you.

-Craig


windrockwater wrote:
Yup thats the question. I windsurf in the Northeast. The wind is finicky. There are many days i have to decide between my big long board (with a centerboard) or my shorter board that has no centerboard.

More often than not, i use the long board, enjoy some downwind sailing and then have to schlog back upwind. With the centerboard its not a problem. If i am using my short board, things can get dicey. And sometimes its just a bummer that after some fun runs i have to really work at getting back to the launch.

So, whats a 'high performance' freeride/freemove board that is sporty and fun for a fairly big dude but also has a centerboard for when that is needed? Does such a beast exist?
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 611

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep... word for word... top to bottom, what Craig said.

What's your weight... that "might" vary the answer a bit. And how light might the wind be, when you want to get back up wind... would also be helpful.

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Greg
Seattle, WA
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84
Sailing long and short boards, every year since then.
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windrockwater



Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am 6'-5" and 215lbs. Long and leveragey.

I have a Bic 160L that doesnt really do it for me. Its stranded me downwind a few times. I use a big windsup mostly with sails ranging from 6.2 if its really blowing. To 7.3 if its sort of blowing. To a 9.0 Ezzy if there is little wind. I get in all the straps and love it. But if its choppy and windy, i feel like I am bucking a wild bronco on the 11'-8" board.
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carl



Joined: 25 Feb 1997
Posts: 2626
Location: SF bay area

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A smaller board would be good in the chop but to sail something under 160L you probably need to waterstart at your weight. Most modern boards over 115 liters are ment for light wind. If you can't waterstart now would be a good time for a lesson.

Last edited by carl on Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 611

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, big guy, so from what you're saying about what you want, I agree a Kona One would be great.
Sure if it gets to be steady 20, even at your size, you don't need it. But it'll work fine. In those conditions hang all your weight from the harness lines, and it won't feel like a wild bronco "although that feeling can be fun, if you're in control" (kinda depends exactly what you mean by that).

And another option, that's a modern version of what Craig was talking about (transition boards) is the Exocet Nano 205 and Nano 175. Both have daggerboards, but aren't as wide as your Bic... these will also work for you. Offer performance, kinda shortboard-like when it's windy, with dagger retracted. But can get you back upwind with dagger down.

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Greg
Seattle, WA
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84
Sailing long and short boards, every year since then.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3189

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have sailed the 11'8" and kona one extensively. they sail really well powered and lit up.

11'8" mast base all the way back with a 32 cm fin when super lit up is not that unmanageable. with the stock fin, it is. dagger for me was useless for my needs.

kona one comes with a great 46 cm fin, but i had one of the originals that came with a 41. i preferred the 41 when nicely powered and higher.


money no object? carbone, for sure is the best long board i have ridden.

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://www.seanski.com/
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3189

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

link for carbone

http://www.konaone.com/our-products/kona-carbone/

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://www.seanski.com/
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 611

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, all true.
I haven't sailed the Kona One as much as many folks, but I do have lots of high performance longboard experience. And "I have sailed the Kona a fair amount" in the last few years... an even mix of 1-15 mph wind, and 10-20, and 20-30. And as was said, it handles the 20-30 stuff just fine (especially for bigger guys, and or folks with some high wind skills).
BTW, all my time on these boards is flat-water stuff. Yes, plenty of big chop and some swell when high wind stirs up the water... but zero wave or coastal surfing experience.

Anyway, I was just saying that the OP doesn't "need" the Kona for 20+ wind, cause he already has other options... but he can certainly use it in those conditions if it ends up that way.

Next - Is the Bic 160L board you have the model with, or without, centerboard?
I'm guessing it's the one without. So what you have there, is a really big shortboard. It should do what you want (get you upwind) if you're sailing it in enough wind. Of course, it'll also get like a wild bronco in big choppy water and high wind cause it's so wide (a Kona would probably be easier/smoother).
If you get a performance longboard like a Kona One, than you could get a smaller shortboard than the 160 you have. It's just that you want to stay powered-up while on it, so you can stay upwind. Something in the 130-150L range, but this all depends on your skill, and experience, goals, etc.

_________________
Greg
Seattle, WA
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84
Sailing long and short boards, every year since then.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2124

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second it all -

The Kona 1 and the non centreboard Bic 160 (I own both) are very different boards. The Kona 1 with the 46 fin is a VERY capable longboard, perhaps the most allrounder of the species to date, in a remarkable range of wind and sea conditions. As John says, with the smaller original 41 fin in 'fully lit' mode, it can be fast and exciting. (Very much so!)

The Bic 160, on the other hand is a big shortboard lightwind and flatter water blaster with a relatively narrower baqnd of use. As Greg points out it rapidly becomes a bucking Bronco if things 'pick up', yet as you've found, it stinks at getting back upwind when only able to slog. In its favour though, it can quite remarkably produce that shortboard blaster feel in those lighter winds and flatter waters within its narrower range of usage.

Obviously, neither board does away with the need for progression into smaller 'normal' higher wind boards. But the Kona 1, or perhaps Nano cheaper equivalent, should be a keeper, instead of just abandoning the longboard in favour of the more restrictive route of shortboard only (lightwind claims notwithstanding) which in our real world simply means less opportunity to use such to proper effect. (Chasing the image factor!)
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