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Best performance board with a daggerboard?
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting downwinded is 95% a technique issue provided you are rigged for the conditions. If you launch and can't plane upwind then return and rerig rather than blasting off downwind.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4383
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kona.
The NAISH Kailua

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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 881
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

back in the day ....
there were MANY transition longboards ...
between 185 and 225 liters
the larger BIC Veloce, F2 Phoenix 320, Mistral Equipe I, Fanatic Ultra CAT, HiFly, Starborg 320 , etc, etc
now...
hmmm...

U2U2U2 wrote:
The Kona.
The NAISH Kailua
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4383
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Best performance board with a daggerboard? Reply with quote

windrockwater wrote:
Yup thats the question. I windsurf in the Northeast. The wind is finicky. There are many days i have to decide between my big long board (with a centerboard) or my shorter board that has no centerboard.

More often than not, i use the long board, enjoy some downwind sailing and then have to schlog back upwind. With the centerboard its not a problem. If i am using my short board, things can get dicey. And sometimes its just a bummer that after some fun runs i have to really work at getting back to the launch.

So, whats a 'high performance' freeride/freemove board that is sporty and fun for a fairly big dude but also has a centerboard for when that is needed? Does such a beast exist?


The problem presented is NOT downwind, it's getting back. This at times is problematic for most. It's a bummer yes, but if it were all easypiesey, you would be doing something else. It's a challenge at times, at time a obstacle that's near impossible to overcome.

What is the short board?

your requested windsurf board , probably doesn't exist , then none ever are ideal without some shortcomings. If not the Kona then a older long board, as BIc or such

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windrockwater



Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies. I suppose i am cursed with sailing on days where the wind always seems to be dying while sailing. I have an 131 Xcite Ride (never seem competent enough to sail it reliably). A 160 Bic techno with no daggerboard (more stable for me; easy uphaul, waterstarting, larger sail sizes) and the Exocet WindSUP (stable as a sailboat, handles big sails, can practically sail straight upwind when needed).

I just need more time on the water with all of them i guess Smile.
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rswabsin



Joined: 14 May 2000
Posts: 335
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son has been taking beginner/intermediate lessons with rental gear and one of the more versatile boards I've seen with a dagger board is the Fanatic Viper. Comes in variety of sizes and definitely does plane quite nicely. Another board worth looking into is the JP Explorer. Haven't seen it in person but the specs indicate they are a bit lighter, longer shaped and geared to satisfy both beginner and the more advanced rider that wants to cruise around a bit with a simple but fun board.

Rob
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with prior poster that improvement in sailing skills will solve all problems. Having fun planing is not a "downwind" experience. I am recalling my first years of planing success and I had exactly the same problem. I had a Fanatic Bat transition board for this problem; I had a great time planing full on in straps, would often need the daggerboard to get back upwind or to initially get upwind. In retrospect, it was far inferior to any modern board in getting on a plane and upwind planing, but with the daggerboard could schlog back. Bic makes that 160 with a daggerboard (160D I believe) but I would not suggest it.
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To OP,
By the way, you also have board I am considering (windsup 11 Cool and a board that I have (Bic Nova 165 heavy version of Bic 160). Bic Nova is my desperation low wind board I use with Ezzy Zephyr. Bought it mainly to teach my kids and as low wind desperation board. Kids want to paddle too, I might want to play around in sloppy Great Lakes waves on certain light days, so I am considering windsup 11 8 bamboo version. But I still want nice low wind planing performance, fast strapped in feeling at least equivalent to Bic Nova (which is just barely OK). In good powered up conditions, do you get as fun a ride on the windsup 11 8 as your Bic 160?
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2126

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The older non centreboard Bic 160 with 50 fin, which is the one I own and quite like using on light wind sunny warm summer just having fun type days, is, when properly powered up with a big sail (8.0 mine) , faster than the 165 Nova. Indeed, I would say that its most noteworthy characteristic is its ability to keep and hold that speed with the aid of its generated apparent wind, in the lower wind ranges it was obviously meant for.(Can't give an exact windspeed, but few other boards would 'take off' where it can't.)

The two main snags with the board (that I find) are a) the limited wind speed band in which it can perform COMFORTABLY. (i.e. generated higher wind chop on the open sea - perhaps not such an issue if only used on inland sheltered waters.) and b) its relatively poor (as with all short wide boards) upwind beating ability (low speed and poor pointing angle without side slip) when SLOGGING OFF THE PLANE as all too often can happen when it is used as intended, in light iffy wind conditions. (i.e. only able to plane about half of the time.)

As I understood the original posters point, that was his issue. i.e. the poor ability to SLOG back upwind after his enjoyable planing downwind, which can often (bearing off a bit) be the way to get it planing in lighter winds.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 615
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

windrockwater wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. I suppose i am cursed with sailing on days where the wind always seems to be dying while sailing. I have an 131 Xcite Ride (never seem competent enough to sail it reliably). A 160 Bic techno with no daggerboard (more stable for me; easy uphaul, waterstarting, larger sail sizes) and the Exocet WindSUP (stable as a sailboat, handles big sails, can practically sail straight upwind when needed).

I just need more time on the water with all of them i guess Smile.


Ah ha... so you "really" have 3 boards!!
That sounds like a very nice set, for you. And with the added info... I don't think you need a "new board" at all. I agree with others... more and more practice, will be best. There are no short-cuts in this sport, we all have to put in the time. But it's the challenge and the journey, that's fun.
And as far as "planing down wind and getting stuck there".
DON'T DO THAT, haha!
I always teach students to, sail upwind for the first couple reaches every time you go out. When you're confident you can do that, and sail back to your launch. THEN, you can sail farther up wind... and then try to plane back down wind. Anyway the point is, don't sail downwind first... always sail upwind first.
Keep up the good practicing, it will all pay off Smile

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Longboarding since '81
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