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Best performance board with a daggerboard?
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 744
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seadawg, curious why you say, you hardly ever need a bigger sail than 6.5 on a serenity?
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Greg
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 373

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well in about a 10knt wind the 6.5 takes it right up to hull speed. My son put an 8.8 on it and it took it up to hull speed quicker and then the bow came up the tail sank and it was just plowing through the water as fast as it could go. The hull just cain't plane.

My 6.5 is an Ezzy Infinity. I'm far from good with this board but I've used a 5.0 on it a 7.5. My experience is that in say 5-8knts the sail size doesn't matter all that much. The hull shape is so efficient.

I got on a longboard kick a while back. I have a Equipe II, Mega Cat 380, the Serenity and Most recently Ed Angulo made me a custom 11.4(no center board)

Please, don't want to hijack this thread......just really like longboards these days.
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windward1



Joined: 18 Jun 2000
Posts: 1071

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seadawg,
What is the shape of that custom 11.4?
And is Ed Angulo still shaping? I had gotten no response from his websites and I thought someone told me he had retired.
Windward1
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 744
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SeaDawg wrote:
Well in about a 10knt wind the 6.5 takes it right up to hull speed. My son put an 8.8 on it and it took it up to hull speed quicker and then the bow came up the tail sank and it was just plowing through the water as fast as it could go. The hull just cain't plane.
My 6.5 is an Ezzy Infinity. I'm far from good with this board but I've used a 5.0 on it a 7.5. My experience is that in say 5-8knts the sail size doesn't matter all that much. The hull shape is so efficient.
I got on a longboard kick a while back. I have a Equipe II, Mega Cat 380, the Serenity and Most recently Ed Angulo made me a custom 11.4(no center board)
Please, don't want to hijack this thread......just really like longboards these days.

SeaDawg, thanks... that's great info... and certainly not hi-jacking, cause the thread title is performance longboard with centerboard!!
And... you have a very cool selection of longboards there... impressive Smile

Like you, I'm into quality longboards... always have been. I currently have a Mistral Equipe II XR... an F2 Lightning World Cup Race... a Kona One (which I sail AND teach with).... a Kona Carb One (actually, just sold).
And I had tons of years on Bic Bamba raceboards (but none in the garage now). And... I've owned Ultra Cats and Mega Cats in the past (great raceboards).
Also in the last 10 years, I've spent time sailing Starboard Phantoms and Serenity's... and Exocet RSD2's... but haven't actually owned those.
And in the 80's I spent lots of time sailing Div II boards.

A question for you and others - Regarding that "maximum hull speed" thing... I thought that didn't apply to windsurfers?
Anyway, despite confusing and mysterious hydro-dynamics, here's my experience with most all of these boards... which I've sailed in 95% sub-planing conditions. And here's what happens with me at 200lbs. in 5 to 12 knot wind averaging lots 8-9 knot stuff. With the 6.5m sail you're talking about, I get tired fast, cause there's not enough power in the sail, and I have to stand up balancing on the board, holding the sail up, and I'm moving fine... but not that fast, so I get bored and get tired cause I'm holding the sail up, instead of it holding me up, haha!!
So then, I'm tried and not having much fun Sad

But in the same light wind with a 10.5 on "any of the above boards including a Serenity" I am leaning out off the board, hanging all my weight in the harness off the boom, leaning out over the water... which is REALLY FUN and I'm definitely going faster (proven in side by side longboard racing in light wind with all these boards for 30 years). Conclusion - I'm not bored, I'm having fun... and I'm going much faster.

So that's why I question anyone saying "you never need a sail bigger" than 6.5 (or whatever) to get a longboard, new, old, Div II, Serenity, etc. to go faster.

You say a Serenity won't plane... but I'd say, if you get it going 15-20 mph board speed, it'll be skipping across the water, with only the back half touching the water, and only the bottom surface of the board touching the water... so that's planing in my opinion. It would be freakin' difficult. But I've seen guys do broad reaches on Div II boards, with no centerboards in them, flying, planing. They're amazing, incredible fitness, athleticism and skill... I can't do it... but I've seen it done, so I know it's possible. If it can be done on a Div II board, it could be done on a Serenity, IMO Smile

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gvogelsang



Joined: 09 Nov 1988
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:

SeaDawg, thanks... that's great info... and certainly not hi-jacking, cause the thread title is performance longboard with centerboard!!
And... you have a very cool selection of longboards there... impressive Smile

Like you, I'm into quality longboards... always have been. I currently have a Mistral Equipe II XR... an F2 Lightning World Cup Race... a Kona One (which I sail AND teach with).... a Kona Carb One (actually, just sold).
And I had tons of years on Bic Bamba raceboards (but none in the garage now). And... I've owned Ultra Cats and Mega Cats in the past (great raceboards).
Also in the last 10 years, I've spent time sailing Starboard Phantoms and Serenity's... and Exocet RSD2's... but haven't actually owned those.
And in the 80's I spent lots of time sailing Div II boards.

A question for you and others - Regarding that "maximum hull speed" thing... I thought that didn't apply to windsurfers?
Anyway, despite confusing and mysterious hydro-dynamics, here's my experience with most all of these boards... which I've sailed in 95% sub-planing conditions. And here's what happens with me at 200lbs. in 5 to 12 knot wind averaging lots 8-9 knot stuff. With the 6.5m sail you're talking about, I get tired fast, cause there's not enough power in the sail, and I have to stand up balancing on the board, holding the sail up, and I'm moving fine... but not that fast, so I get bored and get tired cause I'm holding the sail up, instead of it holding me up, haha!!
So then, I'm tried and not having much fun Sad

But in the same light wind with a 10.5 on "any of the above boards including a Serenity" I am leaning out off the board, hanging all my weight in the harness off the boom, leaning out over the water... which is REALLY FUN and I'm definitely going faster (proven in side by side longboard racing in light wind with all these boards for 30 years). Conclusion - I'm not bored, I'm having fun... and I'm going much faster.

So that's why I question anyone saying "you never need a sail bigger" than 6.5 (or whatever) to get a longboard, new, old, Div II, Serenity, etc. to go faster.

You say a Serenity won't plane... but I'd say, if you get it going 15-20 mph board speed, it'll be skipping across the water, with only the back half touching the water, and only the bottom surface of the board touching the water... so that's planing in my opinion. It would be freakin' difficult. But I've seen guys do broad reaches on Div II boards, with no centerboards in them, flying, planing. They're amazing, incredible fitness, athleticism and skill... I can't do it... but I've seen it done, so I know it's possible. If it can be done on a Div II board, it could be done on a Serenity, IMO Smile


Why did you sell the Carb One?
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AG80



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same question, why did you sell the CarbOne?
I have the CarbOne and it is just a fun board to sail in most wind conditions I see, anything from 5-25 mph. It could be my 1 quiver board. Of course, it is not. I also have a Phantom 320 which I think is a little more technical to sail, but with its thick boxy rails it is fun to "set the rail" and slice through the water. It takes more wind to get the Phantom to plane as compared to the Kona.
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 373

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windward regarding the custom 11"4" It sort of starts with Ted James at Fox Watersports in Hatteras. I've been pushing a bit more weight than I should have for quite a while. Ted had a great design for his 8'6" wave boards. He made me a big guys wave board which worked out real well. I went to Donny Bauer to see if he'd make me a long board. Not his cup of tea he told Ed A about what I wanted the next thing I know I get a call from Ed and he's got the time and is interested in making the board.

Given that I have these race boards and the Serenity there was a gap in what I wanted a board to do.

1st, forgive me but I have no interest in SUP I like decent performance and I like riding waves. I asked Ed could he make a board with about 200ltrs of volume that sailed more than moderately well and be fun in 3-6ft waves.

I'm 65 now and not so up for big wind sailing except for the sound in OBX, my summer venue is Lake Erie about 40mi West of Buffalo.
We get huge frontal winds 20-35knots that put up amazing short wave lenthh but steep waves. The winds can die really quick and leave those nice waves with little wind behind it. Now this long Angulo let's me cruise out to those waves and just have a ball with out the need to water start.

Ed really nailed it, the board is not as fast as the Mega Cat but lordy it is fun in waves. It will do a full board plane in about 12knots with my 7.5 Ezzy Cheatah in 10ish knts and those bigger waves I'll use my My Ezzy Wave 6.3 Twisted Evil
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 373

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greag, I guess your right about the Serenity planning in 15-20 I was out in my boat once while my son sailed it those conditions. It was moving right fast but for sure it was nose up tail buried and maybe the middle third of the board on top of the water. All my son could say was that it was interesting. The genious of the board is 12 and under IMO.
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 373

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windward,

The Angulo is 11'4" by just under 30' double concave in the front 3rd of the board trasitioning to a bit of v through the tail with very moderate rocker. The top deck has full carbon and carbon reinforced rails. Has a very classic shape. It will plane in about 12knts with a 7.5
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windward1



Joined: 18 Jun 2000
Posts: 1071

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SeaDawg,
I have a couple of Angulo Sail SUPs that I play on waves with an Ezzy 7.0 Cheetah. Great fun.
One is 10' 10" and the other about a foot shorter.
Fairly flat rockers so they do plane well. Takes about 9 knots of speed to start the water sheeting off of the tail, losing the following rooster tail gurgle.
At what shop did Ed Angulo make your board?
I sail Santa Cruz County area in California now, but was raised on the shores of Lake Erie. Unfortunately windsurfing had not been invented back then.
W1
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