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Phantom Sails

 
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jfeehan



Joined: 27 Jul 1998
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Phantom Sails Reply with quote

Maybe some of you are aware of Phantom International - they are a French company that builds foiling catamarans.

http://www.phantom-international.com/

Anyway, they have been teasing on their Facebook page with photos of what appear to be a line of windsurfing sails.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/PhantomInternational/posts/?ref=page_internal

scroll down in their posts, and you will see what looks like some sort of race sail, and a few posts below that what might be foiling-specific sail

I thought it was a bit unusual that what is basically a sit-down sailing company would, in 2017, start building windsurfing sails..., although if you haven't been to Europe recently, you might be surprised to hear that windsurfing is still pretty big there - even with young people.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3614

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

North, Neil Pryde, Gaastra were sailboat sailmakers before they branched out to windsurf gear. Hope they find their niche in the market.
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jfeehan



Joined: 27 Jul 1998
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
North, Neil Pryde, Gaastra were sailboat sailmakers before they branched out to windsurf gear. Hope they find their niche in the market.


yes - i do a lot of sailboat racing

the difference is that Phantom is really a boat maker, more than a sail maker. I guess, based on this, that they might actually be making the sails for their boats, but previously I would have guessed that they were sub-ing the sails out to a sailmaker.

I've seen the Phantom cats in Bermuda - Team Oracle had a few of them at their base for the team to play with. They are pretty cool looking, although supposedly not that easy to sail.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shows a 7.8, maybe they are getting into windfoil?
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jfeehan



Joined: 27 Jul 1998
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the announcement
http://mailchi.mp/088599db321a/glz41mhvjb-3130865

marketing direct to consumer - claiming they are 25-30% cheaper than other brands, while using better material resulting in 25% weight savings


phantom windsurfing FB page
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Phantom-Windsurfing-165193790892844/posts/?ref=page_internal
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VinceSF



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 222
Location: Marin County, CA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their technology looks a lot like Avanti's.
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jfeehan



Joined: 27 Jul 1998
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VinceSF wrote:
Their technology looks a lot like Avanti's.


i think one of the main differences is that avanti uses aramid fibers where phantom will use dyneema.

Aramids (kevlar is one) have been used for many years to make sailboat sails. Dyneema is newer and less common, but is arguably better for a few reasons - i think it degrades less in UV, and is less susceptible to damage from flogging, which bends the fibers too much. Aramids can be a bit brittle.

I guess there are some areas where aramids are better, but i don't know that much more about it...
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4372
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfeehan wrote:
VinceSF wrote:
Their technology looks a lot like Avanti's.


i think one of the main differences is that avanti uses aramid fibers where phantom will use dyneema.

Aramids (kevlar is one) have been used for many years to make sailboat sails. Dyneema is newer and less common, but is arguably better for a few reasons - i think it degrades less in UV, and is less susceptible to damage from flogging, which bends the fibers too much. Aramids can be a bit brittle.

I guess there are some areas where aramids are better, but i don't know that much more about it...


The discussion on materials, where in the sail, which is better in certain panels,
Is best left to those experts who have research and testing aplenty.I have some custom sails where I could chose materials, I know just enough , of some, the smartest thing is let the builder decide.

In my own tests at home mono, is by far the most effected by uv.

The claims by Phantom, 25% less, 25% more are advertising hype, with little support. Price just one , 25% less compare to what Sail, and what price, MSRP .?

Is shipping from France? Having sails sent from The UK, shipping is reasonable exchange rate does matter.

Is the difference between a sailboat sail and windsurf , only materials?

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