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Footstrap Positions
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mamero wrote:
For a little guy like me 20-25 knots is more like 4.5-3.5 kind of territory. You are braver than I. Smile

It's not a matter of "bravity" ... Smile ... but one of experience. 20-25 kts (23 -28 mph) average wind speed is a perfect range for a 5.7 or a powerful 5.2 and B&J sailing ... a 6.5 to 7.5 for amateur racing ... bigger yet for serious racerhedz who must be powered every second or lose the race.

Every minute you sail what you call "overpowered" puts you 60 seconds closer to becoming a really good WSer. At your stage, today's "overpowered" is tomorrow's casual cruising and next week's wanting more power half the time.

The number of reasons I strongly prefer rigging bigger to much bigger than most guys my size is nearing two dozen. Suely some of them apply to you, and having that skill really opens one's options.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
mamero wrote:
For a little guy like me 20-25 knots is more like 4.5-3.5 kind of territory. You are braver than I. Smile

It's not a matter of "bravity" ... Smile ... but one of experience. 20-25 kts (23 -28 mph) average wind speed is a perfect range for a 5.7 or a powerful 5.2 and B&J sailing ... a 6.5 to 7.5 for amateur racing ... bigger yet for serious racerhedz who must be powered every second or lose the race.

Every minute you sail what you call "overpowered" puts you 60 seconds closer to becoming a really good WSer. At your stage, today's "overpowered" is tomorrow's casual cruising and next week's wanting more power half the time.

The number of reasons I strongly prefer rigging bigger to much bigger than most guys my size is nearing two dozen. Suely some of them apply to you, and having that skill really opens one's options.


Yes, this is true.
Mamero - comfort with a certain sail size is based on experience and skill. And getting experience and skill is somewhat based on your "moxie" (determination, nerve, or force of character). And the biggest factor, all else being equal, is sailor weight. Grant is much bigger than you (how much do you weigh?) so that explains part of the difference.
For example, for sailors who have the same experience, skill and moxie... then weight is the deciding factor... 140lb and 180 lb and 220 lb. in 22 knot wind. The light guy might be using a 5m sail. The mid might be using a 6m sail. The heavy might be using a 7m sail. And they'd all be going the same speed... just going back and forth (BAF) and doing planing jibes.
(My exact numbers are off a bit, however the point I illustrate is correct.) Any of these chats on forums that have speed and planing and strap placement and sail size, fin size, and board specs etc. should always include sailor weight.

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Longboarding since '81
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 380
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:
You have received carefully written advice worth 1000's of $ - by experts with many decades worth of windsurf experience... incredible.


Agreed. This thread and indeed the forum in general is extremely valuable to windsurfers of all levels.

Of course at times it's challenging to give and receive 100% applicable feedback 100% of the time. Unless someone regularly sails with the other. However, there is almost always some valuable tip to give or receive even if you've never seen the other person sail.

Like anything on the internet; take the best, leave the rest.

Thanks for the tips folks...


Last edited by mamero on Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 380
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:
"You're a lighter weight (although you never said here, what you weigh) novice windsurfer.

gregnw44 wrote:
Grant is much bigger than you (how much do you weigh?)


My weight is 138-140lbs.
My shoe size is 8.5. A few of you mentioned how smaller feet can benefit from outer straps.

I'm 5' 6" if that matters.

PS... Although I admittedly still have much to learn, I would not consider myself a novice. I can beachstart, waterstart, tack, non plane gybe, harness, foot straps, blast. Perhaps Intermediate or Progressing would be more applicable than Novice. Laughing
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mamero wrote:
gregnw44 wrote:
"You're a lighter weight (although you never said here, what you weigh) novice windsurfer.

gregnw44 wrote:
Grant is much bigger than you (how much do you weigh?)


My weight is 138-140lbs.
My shoe size is 8.5. A few of you mentioned how smaller feet can benefit from outer straps.

I'm 5' 6" if that matters.

PS... Although I admittedly still have much to learn, I would not consider myself a novice. I can beachstart, waterstart, tack, non plane gybe, harness, foot straps, blast. Perhaps Intermediate or Progressing would be more applicable than Novice. Laughing


Although there aren't any universally agreed standards regarding skills and achievement levels... I agree with your assessment Smile
If you can waterstart out there at Squamish, after crashing in powered-up shortboard conditions... and are comfy at hanging all your weight, out off the board, from your harness and boom... and can use most all footstraps, on most all boards... then you're flying along at over 20 mph and you're a really solid windsurfer!!
Having 100% waterstarts is the passport to high wind sailing. And being really good at harness and footstrap use, is needed to stay in control (and to sail for more than 10 min) in high wind and CHOPPY water. It wasn't that way in the 80's but it seems to be the case now.
With lots of time and quality practice, you will sail faster and smoother... you will learn different jibes and tacks... jumps and tricks if you want... wave riding... racing... lots of different paths to follow.
And for now, at your size, I don't think it'll make a big difference if you put your straps an inch or two inboard or outboard, or an inch or two forward or backward. Those are minor differences. You will not feel "in or out of balance" no matter what spot you pick. And, if you are truly comfy at using straps, then you can move them anytime you want... and you will NOT have to re-learn new techniques... you won't even notice it, just blasting BAF at Squamish. BUT, when you're an expert and if you have a training partner, you will be able to note slight differences in performance, depending on where your feet are!! And then it'll make a difference in slalom racing, or wave riding, or bump n jump. Until then, just get really good at using them, no matter where they are Smile

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Longboarding since '81
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit that the Japanese video didn't fully focus on all the aspects of the races that they were highlighting. Greg is right in saying that there was minimal focus on jibes in the racing action.

Nevertheless, the one thing that was visually covered quite well was reaching speed, and how the sailors balanced the board, sail power, and the lift from the fin. I think what mamero realized is that outboard footstrap position was a critical factor in maintaining control, especially in the stronger gusts.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mamero wrote:
Although I admittedly still have much to learn, I would not consider myself a novice. I can beachstart, waterstart, tack, non plane gybe, harness, foot straps, blast. Perhaps Intermediate or Progressing would be more applicable than Novice. Laughing


You're an intermediate for sure.

It's great that you're tacking...on smaller boards that's more of an expert skill. Keep it up.

Planing through jibes is next. And jumping if you get the conditions.

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The need for wide position foot straps grows as the width of the board and length of the fin increase along with speed. On a formula board, 1 meter wide and a 70 cm fin, leverage (outboard foot straps) is essential to keep the board flat on the water. If the straps were inboard like a wave board, the formula board would "turtle" or flip over very quickly as the lift from the fin brings it to the surface.

The down side of outboard straps is that they are harder to get into. Another factor is that if you regularly sail multiple boards with different foot strap positions, it's never "automatic" for getting your feet into the straps. If you are always on one, or maybe two boards, you body/mind adapts to the strap position and your feet just go in automatically. I regularly use four boards, two with outboard straps, one medium and one inboard. It's a pain in the ass to have to re-find the straps when I change boards.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:
the biggest factor, all else being equal, is sailor weight.

Or preferences. I normally rig bigger than many advanced to expert friends who outweigh me by 50 pounds, and many local pros my size run much bigger sails than I do. I frigging HATE everything about slogging ... the physical effort, the wasted shred time I'll never get back, the walk of shame potential, the swim if it gets REALLY bad, oncoming barges, and much more. By my criteria, I'm rigged right if I can sail for hours without ever slogging or being overpowered beyond control. That depends very highly on one's skill at managing excess power, which can be developed only by sailing while "Rigged Big". IMO, the "Rig Big or Go Home" bumper sticker or mantra has nothing to do with machismo and everything to do with a highly useful and often very important skill. Holy CRAP, but my buds who just have to be on the smallest sail they can get planing with waste TONS of precious time -- often literally hours in one day -- slogging and/or changing sails.
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 380
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
I have to admit that the Japanese video didn't fully focus on all the aspects of the races that they were highlighting. Greg is right in saying that there was minimal focus on jibes in the racing action.

Nevertheless, the one thing that was visually covered quite well was reaching speed, and how the sailors balanced the board, sail power, and the lift from the fin. I think what mamero realized is that outboard footstrap position was a critical factor in maintaining control, especially in the stronger gusts.


I watched that video again. You guys are right in that they don't really show a lot of completed carve gybes. Sorry for the confusion there. They do show a lot of successful gybe entries.

I think what really caught my eye was the speed and control. Every gybe entry looked solid. Everyone are on big sails and wide boards. I was impressed how nearly everyone (Men, women, kids) where looking comfortable going flat out in those conditions. A couple sailors where getting so much lift It looked like they might actually get air.

I suggested earlier they maybe learned footstraps in the outboard position. I of course can't say for sure. Just speculating. However, they all certainly seem comfortable in them. This implies at the very least that everyone has been in outboard straps for a while. I didn't really see any boards with inboard looking straps. If there is a rental spot near there perhaps the majority of the boards available are wider boards with outboard straps. If you are sailing there then wideboards and outboard is what you get unless you BYOB. Bring you own Board.

Different venues have different disciplines. People tend to sail similar gear (and perhaps setups) to those around them because its familiar. Just observations and speculation.
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