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Reassessment of twin cam sails and longish boards
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1178
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reassessment of twin cam sails and longish boards Reply with quote

I went sailing today with a buddy who has been bitten hard by the windsurfing bug and has bought a bunch of 10-25 year old gear off craiglist and such.

Today he was using a mistral prodigy with a 9.8 NeilPryde V8 (twin-cam freerace sail). I was on an older exocet formula board with a 9.5 Ezzy Cheetah (no cam freeride sail). The wind was offshore and spotty, maybe 10-15 knots but with lulls below planing speed, especially near shore.

My rig was working fine- pump once or twice to plane, buckle in, and go. But when we traded gear I was really shocked by how much constant, smooth drive and stability my buddy's twin cam V8 had. Combined with the floaty, 298x85 cm prodigy board and 50 cm stock fin it provided a weird sensation of just grabbing the boom and smoothly (but quickly) accelerating to planing with no pumping or other input. There was so much shape in the sail I hardly even had to sheet in. The stability was fine even with the bare minimum downhaul and just enough outhaul to keep it off the boom.

I love how easy my Ezzy Cheetah is to rig, but I'm wondering if I went too far in jumping from the standard heavy 4 cam race sail that is usually paired with a formula board to the totally camless sail. Maybe 2 cams really is the sweet spot.

Anybody aficionados of twin-cam sails still out there?

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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2021
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Reassessment of twin cam sails and longish boards Reply with quote

It's not the twin cam per se, it was those V8s. I had a friend with some
of those sails years ago, and they were a solid smooth ride, with good
power.

4 cams is way too many (I think 1 cam is way too many myself), but
those V8s were pretty magical.

-Craig

d0uglass wrote:
I went sailing today with a buddy who has been bitten hard by the windsurfing bug and has bought a bunch of 10-25 year old gear off craiglist and such.

Today he was using a mistral prodigy with a 9.8 NeilPryde V8 (twin-cam freerace sail). I was on an older exocet formula board with a 9.5 Ezzy Cheetah (no cam freeride sail). The wind was offshore and spotty, maybe 10-15 knots but with lulls below planing speed, especially near shore.

My rig was working fine- pump once or twice to plane, buckle in, and go. But when we traded gear I was really shocked by how much constant, smooth drive and stability my buddy's twin cam V8 had. Combined with the floaty, 298x85 cm prodigy board and 50 cm stock fin it provided a weird sensation of just grabbing the boom and smoothly (but quickly) accelerating to planing with no pumping or other input. There was so much shape in the sail I hardly even had to sheet in. The stability was fine even with the bare minimum downhaul and just enough outhaul to keep it off the boom.

I love how easy my Ezzy Cheetah is to rig, but I'm wondering if I went too far in jumping from the standard heavy 4 cam race sail that is usually paired with a formula board to the totally camless sail. Maybe 2 cams really is the sweet spot.

Anybody aficionados of twin-cam sails still out there?
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm weird but I have yet to find a cam less sail above ~7.5 which really sailed as nicely as something with a locked in shape. Although I have an 8.5 Matrix that delivers very smooth power it definitely doesn't have the range or glide of a cammed sail.

I don't (yet) have any proper deep luff race sails however.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2457

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:18 am    Post subject: Twin Cam Sail Reply with quote

Guilty. I have a twin cam Naish Indy 8.2.

Coachg
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been using my 2014 Cheatah 7.5/6.0 almost exclusively for a while now. I just came back from OBX and had a longboard day where the winds were up and down 12-18. I hadn't used my 2005 Infinity 6.5 in a long time and decided to rig it up. Gotta say it felt pretty darn good.

Definatly took a little longer to rig, would I have enjoyed the 6.0 Cheatah just as much......probably. If you asked which sail I enjoy more......answer I don't know.

The board was an 11'4" Custom Angulo about 200lt had a ball that day.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2021
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not weird to have a preference. You should ride what you like, but have
you tried a big Retro?

.01

-Craig

grantmac017 wrote:
Maybe I'm weird but I have yet to find a cam less sail above ~7.5 which really sailed as nicely as something with a locked in shape. Although I have an 8.5 Matrix that delivers very smooth power it definitely doesn't have the range or glide of a cammed sail.

I don't (yet) have any proper deep luff race sails however.
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 916
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a bit of a side note, and I might catch some flack from the "X-Ply is Amazing" crowd, but I would just like to point out that the V8 is probably 15-20 years old and sounds like it is still in workable condition. One reason that you might have liked it so much is due to the pure monofilm construction which is light, stiff, stable, and slippery feeling.

Monofilm gets a bad rap, but it is a really nice material, especially in large freeride and race gear.

Sorry if this is seen as a side track to some, but I do think that the materials used in the sails may have influenced your perception of the differences in feel.

Otherwise, yes, twin cam sails are great for big sail freeriding Very Happy

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18339

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally do not like cammed sails, but that V8 was a major exception. It was a great sail, period.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 999

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like my V8 8.5. The top-end stability is not the quite same as with 3- or 4-batten sails, but that's not an issue unless the wind picks up suddenly. When the wind picks up, the V8 also requires quite a bit more strength to hold it than the newer race/freerace sails; but when using it in marginal conditions, that extra grunt makes it a easier to get going. I also like that is has quite a wide tuning range - it works quite well with longboards when using 4-5 cm less downhaul and minimal outhaul.

If I had to replace the sail, I'd replace it with a 3 or even 4-cam sail if I'd be mostly thinking about planing on shortboards. Once planing, I find the Loft Switch Blades and Racing Blades are even easier than the V8; that includes jibes. But when I add longboarding to the mix, I'd also consider another V8, or perhaps even a no-cam Kona One sail, with both the US Nationals and the Kona Worlds being on the East Coast in 2018.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the minority, but I actively dislike retros. I've had a 6.5 and 7.5
I find their power delivery the opposite of what I like.
I think it may have to do with where the batten above the boom ends relative to the mast. On a retro at mid DH they are at mid mast, on this matrix they are inline with the rear of the mast. The retro doesn't develop much shape until you get some power into it then it builds quite fast within a small sheeting angle. The matrix powers up more progressively and has more shape when sheeted out.

cgoudie1 wrote:
It's not weird to have a preference. You should ride what you like, but have
you tried a big Retro?

.01

-Craig

grantmac017 wrote:
Maybe I'm weird but I have yet to find a cam less sail above ~7.5 which really sailed as nicely as something with a locked in shape. Although I have an 8.5 Matrix that delivers very smooth power it definitely doesn't have the range or glide of a cammed sail.

I don't (yet) have any proper deep luff race sails however.
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