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Reassessment of twin cam sails and longish boards
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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1375
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was sailing w/ my girlfriend several years ago... her favorite board was a ~1999 Mistral Flow 284 which is 113 liters but probably only 58cm wide? (I've since given the board away). Anyway she was sailing on it w a 4.2. I was probably on 4.8 and 100l freestyle... anyway, people at the beach admonished me for putting her on such a big board, but they ignore the actual width of the board. I actually hopped on her gear for awhile, and it was so smooth and easy to sail in a straight line. My performance gear, while the latest and greatest, was also great, but the sensation was totally different. I actually put a lot of time in on that Flow 284 when I was learning to windsurf. Such a great board.

moral of the story I guess is that the older gear is still fun and provides a different ride... might even be preferable to some people.

Sometimes, high performance gear isn't the best for everybody. I bought lighter wind gear a few years ago and went w/ slalom sails and boards. the boards were fine, but the sails with four cams were no fun to jibe. I found my favorite sail was a 2-cam 7.5 with soft rotation and a narrow sleeve. It still had some softness (which the 4-cam slalom sail did not) and was focused more on the lower power band, so it got me planing early. and it was still fun to jibe, w which was really important to me. also, when slogging i could backwind and do heli tacks and such and it still felt semi-normal.

my 2 cam was actually very easy to rig... basically the same as a no cam... just had to slide the mast in a little more carefully but the cams actually make great handles for rigging on the mast.

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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 881
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

have been longboard and light wind sailing for over ten(10) years now...
have tried 4-cam, 2-cam, SW Retro and now HSM SpeedFreak (and many other no cam)
since i purchase my sails used, have only had one 2-cam MS-2 sail
it was a great sail and i used and abused it...
i tried giving it more range by putting less downhaul and outhaul
this caused me to break a few battens, which indicates one needs to be more careful
some suggest always keeping downhaul close to suggested and only playing with outhaul
perhaps adjustable outhaul is the BEST approach

the 4-cam sails are fine/great as long as there is wind and you don't drop it too often
it is heavy when schlogging and a PITA to uphaul - never managed to water start one
now i am using the HotSailsMaui SpeedFreak 8.5 which is available with one camber
in really light wind and with my weight I use the Mistral Equipe 2 with the TR-4 10 meter race sail ...
and typically there is NO ONE else on the water !!
gust is at 3:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6OskDywGtc

let's hope foiling and/or windwings can make it even more fun Smile
longboarding and light wind sailing that is & windsurfing in general ...

i actually took the Mistral Equipe I with the MS-2 on the local river ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfOUpCDP_a8
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3191

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a few thoughts.

short and wide means no glide. long and wide: prodigy and really old formulas excel in those conditions. so do long boards and older large/long free rides. speed slider II 89 was stupendous, so was hi-fly madd 165. they were superior to the prodigy in many ways.

V8's never seem to have extended low end by under down hauling. they just feel heavier and lack the lighter feel they can achieve when planing. on the beach, prydes quite often look over down hauled when tuned to specifications, even with proper masts. but, they sail best that way. nearly always have.

Douglas, i am not a big fan of ezzy's philosophy of "here's your optimal settings" schtick. sails stretch, esp large ones. methinks you may have to re-calibrate your down haul velcro doohicky at the bottom of the sail????? not many folks realize the instructions discuss resetting your mast length markers. kinda a reverse self fulfilling prophecy, those that are attracted to the initial "set it and forget it" schpeal end up not being able to get the proper tuning after 20-30 uses after all. if one is in the habit of tuning without these "guides," one can dial stuff in faster??????

lastly, i get a far better feeling of stability from my freespeeds when i dial in the proper amount/tuning of tube battens. if a sail has the proper tubes with the right bend/length of tube, ANY sail will feel more stable. tubes add stability, but take away some low end. always trade offs.

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Ugly_Bird



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Twin Cam Sail Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Guilty. I have a twin cam Naish Indy 8.2.

Coachg


Same here. Naish Indy 7.6
Best twin cam sail I ever had or used. It is very well balanced and feels light on water. Great for lake like conditions. Takes extra 5 minutes to rig comparing to non-cam sail.
I'm a small and not super strong guy but can play light wind stuff with this sail when wind drops from planing conditions.

Andrei.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joethewindsufa wrote:
have been longboard and light wind sailing for over ten(10) years now...
have tried 4-cam, 2-cam, SW Retro and now HSM SpeedFreak (and many other no cam)
since i purchase my sails used, have only had one 2-cam MS-2 sail
it was a great sail and i used and abused it...
i tried giving it more range by putting less downhaul and outhaul
this caused me to break a few battens, which indicates one needs to be more careful
some suggest always keeping downhaul close to suggested and only playing with outhaul
perhaps adjustable outhaul is the BEST approach

the 4-cam sails are fine/great as long as there is wind and you don't drop it too often
it is heavy when schlogging and a PITA to uphaul - never managed to water start one
now i am using the HotSailsMaui SpeedFreak 8.5 which is available with one camber
in really light wind and with my weight I use the Mistral Equipe 2 with the TR-4 10 meter race sail ...
and typically there is NO ONE else on the water !!
gust is at 3:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6OskDywGtc

let's hope foiling and/or windwings can make it even more fun Smile
longboarding and light wind sailing that is & windsurfing in general ...

i actually took the Mistral Equipe I with the MS-2 on the local river ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfOUpCDP_a8



Joe,

You'd REALLY like a raceboard sail. They really are a different breed.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2457

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe,

We really need to get you into an ABK camp to learn how to tack more efficiently.

Coachg
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DelCarpenter



Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 367
Location: Cedar Falls, IA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of truth in Kevin Kan's statement: "Sometimes, high performance gear isn't the best for everybody."

I push it much further and say: Always and Always and Always high performance gear isn't for everybody. Gear with good enough performance to reliably provide a good high in many or most conditions is worth much more to me than gear that might provide a very high high in a few conditions.

The gear this thread is about and the gear in my quiver which gets used the most can be used by windsurfers with average athletic ability. Its wonderful stuff because I can use it, even with my average or below average athletic ability.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 881
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg: my tacks are getting better
on shortboard can fast tack and slow gybe ...
(yes, my skills are below average Smile that's why i am average joe windsurfer)

and yes... grantmac
would love to try a real raceboard sail ...
rather than getting that DIV 2 board next year - perhaps a sail ...

http://joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2014/03/longboard-sails_4.html

there should be no fear about 2 cam sails tho
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