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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 9608

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Politicians and sex Reply with quote

A very thoughtful piece in today's Chronicle about the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal and how it is relevant today. For NW to ignore. http://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Should-we-have-moved-on-after-Bill-Clinton-12378626.php

The most interesting starting point is that Move On, thought of as a liberal organization, proposed that Clinton should be censured, a response that I think was and is appropriate. From the article:

Quote:
Nearly 20 years ago, Berkeley resident Joan Blades co-founded what would become the progressive behemoth MoveOn.org. She and her husband, Wes Boyd, who made a fortune in software, were frustrated that Washington politics were gridlocked because of the fallout from President Bill Clinton’s affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

So six months after the scandal broke, they circulated a one-line petition online. It asked Congress to “censure President Clinton and move on.” It went viral and helped to shape the national debate. The House impeached Clinton, but the Senate did not convict him and he remained in office. The country moved on, albeit in even tighter partisan gridlock.


While I think that having sex with an intern in his office was disgraceful, I don't think that act, or lying about it, was an impeachable offense. Clinton's actions highlight the inappropriate nature of consensual sex with someone that works for you, or is dramatically younger than you--the power dis-balance. It doesn't matter whether the underlying (man or woman) felt unduly pressured to have sex, or was intent on sleeping their way to the top. The dis-balance is too great, and slick Willie is too smart to not have understood that. I called him slick Willie then, and it was not the first sign that he had a set of "situational ethics", to use John Dean's term.

There is another problem with a sexual relationship between people that work together in a government office where hiring and promotion is supposed to be based on merit. It sends the signal to all those not in the relationship that there is a special relationship going on, which is toxic to other relationships based on hierarchy or expertise. Will the superior protect, and advance the career of the person that works for him because of their relationship rather than merit? That question will always be asked; it is even asked in non-sexual relationships. Most sexual harassment guidelines therefore forbid relationships, or hiring, if there is a direct supervisorial chain. Of course, Trump has ignored the rules and traditions against nepotism, as well as manners.

I believe that public censure is the appropriate response for anyone who fails to recognize the necessary boundaries in public life. It is appropriate for both Al Franken and Joe Barton, and anyone else that crosses that line. I knew an Assemblyman from Marin County who was unseated because he had an affair, and ultimately married, one of his staff. An appropriate response.

Despite desperate efforts by Alabama Republicans, Malibu Bard, and Breitbart, the case of Roy Moore is not the same. I raised two girls and I work in classrooms. The relationship with children is a trust relationship. They are not chattel, they are not junior sexual partners that need grooming. They are a part of the community that needs to be protected by all of the community. A man over 30 dating someone under 21 is just plain sick. The possibility that he had sex with a child, much less multiple credible accusations and an admission that he sought to date teenagers "with their mother's consent" disqualifies him from public office of any sort. He shouldn't be trusted as a dogcatcher.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

again dems forced out wiener for less...

and he threatened her...


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/23/texas-republican-joe-barton-scandal-sexually-explicit-photos

Texas Republican Joe Barton in scandal over sexually explicit photos
Quote:

Report says representative threatened woman over release of pictures
Nude shot of Barton, 68, circulated on social media this week


Quote:
The Texas Republican representative Joe Barton told a woman he would complain to US Capitol police if sexually explicit photographs of him and other material from their relationship were to be exposed publicly, according to a newspaper report.


Two women allege Al Franken touched their buttocks at campaign events
Read more
The Washington Post reported the threat on Wednesday after Barton, from North Texas, apologized for a nude photo of him that circulated on social media. The photo of Barton appeared on an anonymous Twitter account. It was not immediately known who posted the photo or when it was taken.

Barton, a member of the conservative House Freedom Caucus and the longest-serving member of Congress from Texas, announced his re-election bid this month in a district that includes several counties in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Earlier on Wednesday, his spokeswoman told the Dallas Morning News he had no plans to step down.

Barton issued a statement saying that while separated from his second wife, prior to their divorce in 2015, he had sexual relationships “with other mature adult women”. The 68-year-old said each relationship was consensual and had ended.

“I am sorry I did not use better judgment during those days,” said Barton. “I am sorry that I let my constituents down.”




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFqIxT_PtXw

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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, absolutely no mention of the apparent funding/cover-up of sexual misbehaviors w/in the federal government, as in the $17 million paid out in settlements over the years using tax payers money. That's OUR money.
Why no mention of that?
As long as that is going on, then there isn't much of a deterrent for the offenders.
One of the quickest ways to change that, is to have the offenders pay out of their own pockets for any settlements.
Also, if those settlements have been sealed, they should be unsealed, especially for those who are still serving, and they should be forced to reimburse the government.
That has some teeth, no more pussy-footing around the pussies.
John Conyers, fork it over!

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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Interesting, absolutely no mention of the apparent funding/cover-up of sexual misbehaviors w/in the federal government, as in the $17 million paid out in settlements over the years using tax payers money. That's OUR money.
Why no mention of that?
As long as that is going on, then there isn't much of a deterrent for the offenders.
One of the quickest ways to change that, is to have the offenders pay out of their own pockets for any settlements.
Also, if those settlements have been sealed, they should be unsealed, especially for those who are still serving, and they should be forced to reimburse the government.
That has some teeth, no more pussy-footing around the pussies.
John Conyers, fork it over!


The best way to start is at the top, an independent council appointed that is a ultra liberal pit bull that goes after all crimes trump and nothing left unturned. Including rape of a child. And admitted being a sexual molester grabbing females not a pat in the ash but in the fgenatals. He admits to walking into changing rooms of models and contestants and we found he even walked into children's changing rooms to be a peeping tom.

After all a independent council was appointed because right wingers claimed Jimmy Carter was making money from his peanut farm that he made himself and put in a blind trust. Again that was peanuts vs wheat is going on now.

Remember Fox rewarded Ailes even at the end by giving him 10s of millions when he was finally outed as a decades long sexual preditor. Fox should be shut down under rico act...

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Last edited by real-human on Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostly Democrats
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real-human



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

remember trump later claimed he did not know Epstein... a lie... Epstein phone book had about 20 of trumps numbers to even his garage attendant.

Quote:
https://spidercatweb.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/b75d8-trump.jpg




[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBYgqh5QXEFAXpmpot6Xy-2qBqkh7c-nMWzciPqvBTveOPhyFR[/img]

[img]https://spidercatweb.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/19226-chodqpbwiaao_ue1.jpg?w=249&h=321[/img]

[/quote]





Given Donald Trump’s chronic sniffling problem during the three Presidential debates, many have asserted that Trump is an active cocaine user. Trump is also facing an upcoming hearing over a charge that he’s a child rapist.

It should come as little surprise, then, that witnesses have come out and are alleging that Trump used to throw cocaine-fueled parties with underage girls.

Recounted one witness, “The girls were as young as 15, he says, and “over their heads, they had no idea, and they ended up in situations. There were always dramas because the men threw money and drugs at them to keep them enticed.”.

Some of these poor girls had no money and no home and fell under the influence of rich and powerful men. It’s based on power and dominating girls who can’t push back and can be discarded. There’s always someone to pick them back up. Nobody wants to call home and say ‘Help me.’”

The witness added, “Trump would go from room to room.” Confessed the witness, “I was there to party myself. It was guys with younger girls, sex, a lot of sex, a lot of cocaine, top-shelf liquor.”. And in case anything went wrong, the money and power possessed by these men served as powerful insurance to ensure their freedom.

Stated another witness, “So, he’s a man with a woman. A lot of girls, 14, look 24. That’s as juicy as I can get. I never asked how old they were; I just partook. I did partake in activities that would be controversial, too.”


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/married-trump-proposed-apprentice-contestant-brande-roderick-article-1.2846562

Married Donald Trump repeatedly proposed to Playboy model Brande Roderick during 'Apprentice' tapings: report





http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/married-trump-proposed-apprentice-contestant-brande-roderick-article-1.2846562

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Interesting, absolutely no mention of the apparent funding/cover-up of sexual misbehaviors w/in the federal government, as in the $17 million paid out in settlements over the years using tax payers money. That's OUR money.
Why no mention of that?
As long as that is going on, then there isn't much of a deterrent for the offenders.
One of the quickest ways to change that, is to have the offenders pay out of their own pockets for any settlements.
Also, if those settlements have been sealed, they should be unsealed, especially for those who are still serving, and they should be forced to reimburse the government.
That has some teeth, no more pussy-footing around the pussies.
John Conyers, fork it over!


NW, you are capable of a level of willful ignorance and prejudice that keeps your mind hermetically sealed. Or you just troll with that avatar.

Of course, I suspect it is not entirely a coincidence, or the evident ignorance, that leads you to single out the sole African-American suspected of sexual harassment and while giving the groper in chief a pass, despite the 13 credible accusations against the orange grabber. But let's start with the ignorant part. My posting had to do with the general problem of sexual discrimination, and the context. The problems in industry are probably more egregious than in Congress, and secrecy is the enemy in all cases. If you want some information, you might try this: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/20/the-tech-industrys-gender-discrimination-problem

Second, it is again ignorant to fail to distinguish between government in general and Congress. As the article makes clear, much of the case law governing sexual harassment came about through litigation against government agencies.

Neither you nor I know much about the accusations against Conyers because of a settlement. It is virtually identical to the settlements that Trump reached when sued for racial discrimination and money laundering--the details are sealed. It is possible that all of those suits were nuisance suits settled at a lower cost than the cost of litigation. I usually believe the women--but I have been involved in cases where their charges were not sustained. Of course nothing in Trump's subsequent behavior would lend any evidence to support the lawsuits he settled... In any event, NW appears blind to the, at best, hypocrisy in singling out black liberals for attack.

Third, NW is also unaware of the role of Republicans in quashing efforts to apply behavioral standards to Congress. Jackie Speier, who was harassed as a new staffer on the Hill, has long tried to reduce the secrecy around such accusations. http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article184870288.html

But her efforts have been blocked by Repulican Committee leaders.

Congratulations NW, you failed to understand the article and you were wrong on virtually every detail. Ignorance triumphs again.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, I love it when I touch a nerve of yours, I'm sure it gets tiresome having to feel like you have to defend all the time, things keep piling up.

Everything I said is true, noting that you didn't post any links to refute that. And BTW, I didn't single out "the sole African American" or "black liberals", I didn't even mention race of any kind, but you sure made a point to do so, you can't help but play that card over, and over again, so to me, it's become nothing but a predictable throw-away. As for John Conyers, he did a fine job of singling out himself, it's his current case that brought the whole pay-out thing out into the open in the first place, not me.

You might want to back off on feeling like you have to defend everything because there is so much right now, it's almost too much, along with believing you have a "groper in chief" Russian spy for POTUS.
I'd hate to see anyone get a heart attack over politics.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.I guess that NW has forgotten when Trump not merely admitted, but bragged about sexual assault without punishment. I'll remind you:

Quote:
When you’re a star they let you do it,... he feels able to “grab them by the pussy”.


I don't care how you rationalize it, and whether or not you fool yourself--when you hold a white politician to a different standard than a black politician, that is racism. Be proud of it.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
.I guess that NW has forgotten when Trump not merely admitted, but bragged about sexual assault without punishment. I'll remind you:

Quote:
When you’re a star they let you do it,... he feels able to “grab them by the pussy”.


I don't care how you rationalize it, and whether or not you fool yourself--when you hold a white politician to a different standard than a black politician, that is racism. Be proud of it.

I don't, no matter how hard you try to say I do, big boy, keep your race cards up your sleeve, better yet, flush them, they are worthless.
Such an old fashioned tool of the left you are. You belong in a political museum.

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