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Chinook carbon extension med
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 922
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skyking1231 wrote:
i maybe getting a 7.8 sailworks NX...which unfortunatele...says it needs a 29cm extension. was hoping my 28cm would work....i guess i'll have to see...and if not get the bigger one. (unless someone knows already the answer ???? Very Happy )


If itís only off by 1cm, you could probably rig up some sort of mini-tip extension (Iím sure some will flame me for suggesting such a thing). Depending on the type of head fitting on your sail, this could be a very simple solution. I added about an inch to a mast many years ago by making a custom wooden plug which I glassed into the tip of the mast. It worked fine for my needs and held up with no problems.

The other option would be to use an ďextendo,Ē but that probably wonít save you much compared to just biting the bullet and buying a tall extension.

sm
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 749
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyking - "I would not worry about THIS at all" !!!
That's a cool sail... the luff length is 488cm... you have a 460 mast, I'm sure that you'll only need 28cm of extension. Yes, I see the chart that says, you can use 29cm of ext.
But I have lots of Sailworks sails... and I'm quite sure you can get away with 28cm of ext, haha!
Exception - If you look like... and are as skilled as... and sail as over-powered as Bruce P and Dale C... and you want to get the fastest top speed, in very high wind like those two... then yes, it would be nice to get as much as 29cm of ext on that 7.8 Nx.
However, if you are NOT going to sail quite like those guys, then I'm quite sure you will be fine with 28 cm of ext Smile
Personally, I often rig my Sailworks race sails with 1 to 4 cm less ext than they suggest. And my sails still rotate easily... cams stay on... sails are smooth with no wrinkles... top still twists... they are fast, powerful, and controllable.
What I'm saying is, no need to worry about 1cm with that sail, in my opinion. And if you don't believe me, that's fine. Borrow a friend's longer extension and accurately rig and compare all aspects of the sails performance... with 28 cm ext and with 29cm ext. I'm saying, you "might" notice the difference if you're a total expert and racing slalom with a NX 7.8 in 25-30 mph wind. But if you're doing something less than that, I'm sure you'll be fine with 28cm ext. Anyway, if you buy that sail and I'm wrong (no guarantee from me, just my opinion)... you can always buy a longer ext later (but I doubt you'll need to).
PS - And, if you decide later that you "really" need 1 cm more ext.. I have lightly used longer ext from Chinook, Epic Gear, and others... I'll sell you for less than new.
Or, put a thicker mast tip plug, in the top of the mast (that what you have now). As was suggested, you "might" pick up 1/2 cm of thickness there. Just make sure your mast tip plug fits the male "pin" at the top of the Nx.

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skyking1231



Joined: 10 Jul 2000
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks greg....

did you have to put shims in the cams ? on the nx
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4832
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those north lever extensions have been in service for some time. I never saw a need for them.

Reference your 28 cm extension. Vs the 29, I disagree with the posts the 28 will do. Your mast is probably not what they used, and enough factors present themself that extra on top of whatís recommended is adviseable.


Since a particular sail now enters this, I would look at other options, on a sail, that may not require that length of EXT.

Having said that, length EXT bit, , I feel you will find, 7.5 size is less, and your 7.8 proposed , will require the long extension.

My self I would be more concerned with the boom length than mast/ extension. Due to short arms.
This a recent ongoing take on some of the same issue.

http://forums.boards.co.uk/showthread.php/78620-Mast-extension-maximum-and-minimum-safe-overlap

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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 749
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skyking1231 wrote:
thanks greg....

did you have to put shims in the cams ? on the nx


I have several Sailworks (and also other race sails) and they're all different regarding needing shims or not, which is normal. The shims that most use these days work great, and they're easy to figure out, and to deal with.
For Nx's - first rig without shims. You want the cams to rotate with a nice pop, it should take a little effort, but not be too much work. This is EASY to show at the beach, less easy to write about.
Anyway Bruce tells people, there should be a little vertical wrinkle in the luff sleeve around the general area of the cam. Again this is easy to show at the beach, tougher to explain via words. But if the luff sleeve is too baggy and loose, than add a shim. Play with this, and try the 3 different shim sizes, until you get it the way you want. I like mine to rotate easier than some, and I don't mind a bigger wrinkle (or 2 small ones). Other hard core expert racers (which I'm not) like the sail and the cams stiffer, and they want the luff sleeve tighter... so they add a bit more shim. A caution is - if you add too much shim, you won't be able to rotate the sail at all (unless you're Dale C and in 35 mph wind).

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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other thoughts regarding luff length and rigging -
Most all sail designers (including Bruce at Sailworks) say to use the printed sail luff lengths and boom lengths, as a guide... a starting place.
They are not meant to be an absolute directive, never to be wavered from Smile

Yes, for people that don't have any idea what a good sail looks like (not the experienced people on iW) the printed specs are a great default... and using them (with the right mast and boom) will probably be pretty darn good.

And I agree that it's always nice to have a little extra to play with... cause you might want a little more or less than the specs.
Also... many sails give a range of luff length or boom length. Some might say to always stay within that range... but again, I've had reasons to rig just under or over that range on sails... and I always get the results I want (and I like sails that are easy to sail with... and easy to rig).
Also as was said, all 460 (or whatever size) masts or not exactly 460cm's. I measure em whenever I get new or used masts, and I have lots of them. Your 460 could be a slight bit longer or shorter than the 460 Bruce used, even if it's the same brand and model (brands will change the tip plugs sometimes)... this is not exact, to the precise mm.

Back to luff length for a Nx 7.8... they're suggesting 488 or 489 cm. Which is 16' and 1/8" to 16' and 1/2". Do you think you're going to notice the difference between that... while you're flying across chop, trying to maintain balance, hanging from your harness, feet in the straps, weight shifting from foot to foot, heal to toes... left hand to right hand, sheeting in and out... top of the sail twisting back and forth every time you hit a new piece of chop?
Cause there's no way I'd notice it... I just have a big grin on my face... and I'm not thinking about if I have 16' and 1/8" downhaul... or 16' and 1/2" of downhaul. I'm just trying to stay in control and keep everything trimmed right... and I'm thinking about what I need to do to carve through my upcoming jibe, haha!

Yes, if the sail is rigged poorly... sails like crap... or doesn't rotate... yes, I will notice that. But it won't be from varying the total downhaul a cm or 2 from the precise spec.
Like I said before, there are times when I reduce the downhaul several cm's from spec... and it's cause I'm underpowered, and want more power from the sail to get planing. Reducing the downhaul will make a fuller sail and reduce the twist at the top, which will help give me some more power that I want (if the wind is lighter).
But I never under downhaul a sail to the point that I can't control it easily, or the cams pop off, wrinkles, poor rotation, etc.
You should experiment with how much downhaul you want... and it might change a bit. for different conditions. You will only know what you like and what you can make work, after lots of sailing, practicing an experimenting.

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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2618

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: North System Reply with quote

skyking1231 wrote:
a little off topic.....has anyone tried/used the Noth extensions with the built in lever winch ? I have my concerns about it....seems like taking something simple...and making it too complex....if you needed the 'pull'...a rig winch works fine. anyway....


We have been using them for a couple of years now with no problems. It is a loop and go system so far faster & easier rigging than the standard system. Adjusting downhaul on the water is amazing. Takes longer to release rig tension because you ratchet down instead of pull & pop like standard. Like everything else it is personal choice. It is a major time saver for us because we have to rig multiple sails for teaching. An individual rigging just one sail, maybe not so much.

Coachg
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4832
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gregnw44
Wrote..


They are not meant to be an absolute directive, never to be wavered from Smile


Yes. So 2 cm either way , is a reasonable deviation. Hence the 1cm to short EXT caould be 3cm short.

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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4832
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: North System Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
skyking1231 wrote:
a little off topic.....has anyone tried/used the Noth extensions with the built in lever winch ? I have my concerns about it....seems like taking something simple...and making it too complex....if you needed the 'pull'...a rig winch works fine. anyway....


We have been using them for a couple of years now with no problems. It is a loop and go system so far faster & easier rigging than the standard system. Adjusting downhaul on the water is amazing. Takes longer to release rig tension because you ratchet down instead of pull & pop like standard. Like everything else it is personal choice. It is a major time saver for us because we have to rig multiple sails for teaching. An individual rigging just one sail, maybe not so much.

Coachg


This may deserve a thread of its own. Good info may be missed.

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skyking1231



Joined: 10 Jul 2000
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rigged a sailworks 7.8 NX (which requires 29cm)...with the chinook med at 28cm.

I am able to get the med downhaul setting no problem. And pretty close to max setting. About a cm or two beyond the downhaul reference mark (cog symbol). Although i think it would work fine for me....i am a bit concerned about the amount of tension....and the load on the extension itself. If i did try and modify the exension longer....i think it would fail after a session or two. I may get a slightly longer one ....keep the 28cm as a backup.
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