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I need a sail for Wind Foil Surfing in light winds
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: I need a sail for Wind Foil Surfing in light winds Reply with quote

I purchased the Naish Lift sail for my Wind Foil Surfing, and it is incredible. It is super light, luffs easily, and has incredible power to get on the foil for its size.

The problem is I need a bigger sail than their 5.7 when the wind is light.

When the wind is gusting 13 knots or higher the Naish Lift 5.7 works great, but when gusting under 13 knots I can't get going.

Keep in mind this the gust speed, not the average wind speed, I only pay attention to the gusts because that is how I get going and once up I can always keep going. For those that track average speeds it is normally around 10 knots average when gusting to 13 knots.

So I need an under 10 knot Wind Foil Sail.

I like to do Wind Foil Surfing, not Wind Foil blasting. So I need a sail that disappears when riding a swell, and only comes into use when I need a little boost of speed to catch the next swell or to keep going.

This is why the big 8.0 cambered foil sails are not so attractive for me. They are not small wave sails, and they are a big jump from my Lift 5.7.

The Lift works well I believe because they are all Dacron so super light. It is hard to tell from the photo https://www.naishsails.com/product/Lift/ but the batten above the boom is a 1/2 batten.

I believe that half batten along with the additional sail below the boom is what gives the Lift the great power for the size and weight.

In addition the half batten gives the sail a very soft feel so you do not get pulled around as much on the foil even though there are no cambers.

I can't find any other sail like the Lift. The Superfreak is my sail of choice for a 4.7, and that works well because it has some of the same things such as Dacron, and 90% battens.

However, the Superfreak does not have enough light wind pull. I tried out the 7.0 Superfreak and it was not enough. I could probably use an 8.0 Superfreak and although it is light for an 8.0 sail, it is still a really large sail.

Just FYI my board is the JP 155 foil board and my foil is the Naish Thrust WS. My weight is 155 lbs.

Any suggestions? I really want to ride the swells in under 10 knots without going to a 7.5 to 8.0 sail.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2550

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are starting to hit that grey area chasing the Holy Grail. Have you considered paddle foiling? Instead of trying to continue to get larger sails as the wind dips lower SUP foiling may be the answer for swell riding.

Coachg
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 945
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try the 7.0 Superfreak again, but this time remove the middle two or three battens. This would leave just the foot batten, and one or two of the top battens to maintain some semblance of stability, but it would allow the main pocket area to be crazy baggy like the Lift. You could probably under downhaul the sail quite a bit, too, to help give it extra bagginess.

Otherwise, since this is a new arena, a quick email to Naish HQ asking for a 7.0 Lift might actually go pretty far up the chain of command.

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http://wind-nc.com
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 742
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are good tips. And here's another, the Sailworks Flyer 7M sail would be a perfect size up... and perfect "power up"... from your 5.7 Lift and your 155 lbs.

Yes, it has 2 cams. However the sail is really light... with a nice combo of breathability (low downhaul tension) and stability. You can easily flick it around, for tight maneuvers and playing on small waves with foils.
I mean... the first thing you need is enough power to get flying, right?
And for your weight and your wind speed and your foil... this sounds perfect to me!!

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Greg
Longboarding since '81
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wind-NC, I did message Naish foils on Facebook and they replied saying they will let the right people know about it.

Naish knows about my board and purchase as I purchased in person from their Kailua shop. Robby's father commented that my board was huge and was a lot of "glue on the water". That comment might be on target as the Naish foil board is a lot smaller and Robby seems to have no problem going in the lightest winds with the same Lift sail.

I can run the idea of removing battens by Jeff Henderson who designed the Superfreak. He did offer to tune a large Superfreak with tube battens which he said would help keep the draft from shifting while retaining the soft luff.

He also mentioned they will have a foil sail coming out, but it sounds like a racing sail, very high aspect, very fast, cambers, and again I would probably need the 8.0 to go in light winds. It does sound nice as it would probably be easier to control as the wind picked up, so I have not ruled it out as an option if I can't figure out something better.

Coachg, I have considered paddle foil surfing and decided not to pursue it. I am sure it is a ton of fun, but I am now spoiled with 1,000+ yard rides on swells and the ease of foiling back out to catch another swell. The idea of paddling 1,000 yards after each ride sounds very tiring.

Where I go is not like Maui where paddle foilers can do a 10 mile down wind run and have someone pick them up at the finish line. In Kailua Bay you have to foil out against the swells and then ride them right into the shoreline.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 742
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK-NxjV2XBg
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Greg
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gregnw44, I looked at the Sailworks Flyer and am concerned it won't have enough power.

I do not have a 7.0 sail to test, but I will test my 7.5 Ezzy Cheetah. My Ezzy Zephyr has the power I need to get flying in that light wind, but it is very heavy to move around, and becomes a handful when the wind picks up. It is not a wave sail Smile.

I don't see the Flyer 7.0 as more powerful than other 7.0 sails. It just sounds like it was designed to be really comfortable on the foil, in the right winds. Not sure if I am wrong in that assumption.

Also, while it is relatively light, it is probably not as light feeling as an all Dacron sail. As a full batten sail I am not sure how easily it would luff. The Lift and Superfreak have pretty much no shape when there is no wind in them and they literally can hide behind the mast when flagging them out so you feel like you are just surfing while using one hand to hold onto the very end of the boom.

It seems all the foil sails other than the Naish Lift are being designed for straight line fast blasting on a foil, which is a ton of fun, I just decided to go for the surfing wave style foiling instead.

Some of the nicest swells come in on light wind days as the water is less choppy so the swells are more well defined and surfable. However, those are the days my Lift does not have enough Lift.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 742
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're 155 lbs. you'll get flying in very light wind with a 7m Flyer sail Smile
I know 200 lb guys foiling in relatively light wind (10-15 mph) with this sail.

True, the vid I posted shows a little more wind speed than what you're talking about (10-20mph?) however the guys in the vid (Bruce, Dale, Jim) are all WAY heavier than you!
What I don't know is... which Flyer size are they using in this vid? It could be the 6 or the 7m Flyer. But if they're using the 6m Flyer in this wind, at their weight... you'll get flying in much less wind, at your weight.

Here's what else I know. The Flyer is NOT a windfoil race sail. It is designed for all round free-riding, small waves, etc. It isn't like the other cam foil sails out there.
And a 7m Flyer "is more powerful" than other modern, typical, 7m sails. It has less luff curve, takes less downhaul, is much lighter, has a nice draft, has a tighter leech.
Could you totally depower it, while surfing down a wave for a 1000 yards? I'm sure you're right, probably not.
However first you have to get flying, right? And this is the smallest sail that would do it for you.
I suggest you email Bruce at Sailworks... and direct him to your question here... when he has time, I'm sure he'll get back with you. They have awesome customer service (similar to any other successful windsurf brand that has stayed in business this long).

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Greg
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Greg, I emailed Sailworks a link to this thread.

I did notice in the video they are throwing that sail around pretty easy. Like you mentioned, I am not sure which size they were using.

You are right, if I can't get flying all else does not matter.

They do get a lot stronger wind at the Gorge than where I sail so I have to be careful when comparing. There gust might be 13 knots, but their average might be higher which would make the wind stronger.

I will see what they say. If I can solve this problem I would be ecstatic to ride the swells on those light wind days.
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a video interview of Bruce at Sailworks about the Flyer.

Shows 4 - 12 mph on a 6.0 sail. Wow! This might be an option.

https://vimeo.com/241252235
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