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A Great American Died Yesterday
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 10901
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NP. WS commented that Huntsman was a great philanthropistóbut there was a dark side. I had known virtually nothing about him, but his son was a good Governor, and one of the few sane Republicans to run for President. Matty immediately went off the deep end.

Now, are you and Matty arguing that there is no downside to polystyrene? It always puzzles me how some people who style themselves as watermen can be completely ignorant, or antagonistic, to the marine environment.

Now, why were you trolling?
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3115

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler said:
Quote:
One thing that you might want to think about. While polystyrene unquestionably has useful applications today, is it always the best material to use? Instead of using it for hamburger containers, wouldn't paper or cardboard be better overall?

A short story from the last school that I worked for - Some "environmentally concerned" students wanted the cafeteria to use biodegradable plates instead of the polystyrene plates. The school and the contracted cafeteria service bought into it, but the reality is that both plates go into a plastic trash bag, then the dumpster, then the land fill. Both plates take up the same space in the landfill regardless of how they degrade.

The only advantage for the biodegradable plate is if it winds up blowing in the wind. For the school, pretty much a waste of money for a useless "feel good" moment.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 10901
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it does matter. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/ocean-plastic-patch-south-pacific-spd/


http://saferchemicals.org/2014/05/26/styrene-and-styrofoam-101-2/
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4448

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually was trying to find some common ground. His cancer facility in Utah is amazing and built for compassion and the betterment of mankind for all, rich and poor. It went from there with no recognition of his greatness to a debate on pollution.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 10901
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both WS and I would grant the philanthropist title. But you have a quicker trigger than the pussy-grabber in chief.

Answer the questionódo you not understand the downside of polystyrene? Or are you a Russian troll, or a shill for the chemical industry?
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3115

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mad said:
Quote:
Well, it does matter

You clearly missed the point - as I said, it does matter, but dealing with an issue in a logical way seems beyond the grasp of some smart people.

Some (many?) fast food business now avoid polystyrene because too many folks are just too self centered/ignorant/stupid to give a crap about their trash.

This thread is about a guy that gave back to the community with money that was made producing products that manufacturers and services want. It "ain't a crime". The crime is the irresponsible public.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 10901
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So on this we can disagree Techno. While I agree that irresponsible people deserve most of the blame for much environmental damage, I do not hold coporations blameless for producing products that are dangerous and likely to be abused. There are bio-degradable packaging products that, while unsightyl if littered, are not persistent or toxic.

That argument applies even more to other petroleum products, where the health risks and costs of global warming are transferred to others. And in the case of the Trump administration and Republican Congress, we have just increased the susidy for those dangerous products.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4448

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Gates is a liberal as you can get , but I have tremendous respect for him.
Upon his death I am confident I would focus on his incredible charity and not some far fetched negative to demean his existence.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9054

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900, since you are a bit older than me, and you also went to school in the Los Angeles area, I'm sure that you remember at schools that we all used to eat off of ceramic dishes and used metal utensils. All of which could be washed and used over and over. Seems to me that a later change to use of disposable plates and plastic utensils was a highly questionable move that arguably doesn't really serve our long term needs very well on a lot of fronts. It might be cheaper to use disposable products, but is it the right move?

Speaking for myself, at home, I don't buy disposal plastic or paper products for food, and that even includes paper towels. Also, I refuse paper and plastic bags when shopping, as I use reusable bags. Lastly, many of us choose to recycle materials to avoid simply throwing things away that end up in landfills.
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 690

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
techno900, since you are a bit older than me, and you also went to school in the Los Angeles area, I'm sure that you remember at schools that we all used to eat off of ceramic dishes and used metal utensils. All of which could be washed and used over and over. Seems to me that a later change to use of disposable plates and plastic utensils was a highly questionable move that arguably doesn't really serve our long term needs very well on a lot of fronts. It might be cheaper to use disposable products, but is it the right move?

Speaking for myself, at home, I don't buy disposal plastic or paper products for food, and that even includes paper towels. Also, I refuse paper and plastic bags when shopping, as I use reusable bags. Lastly, many of us choose to recycle materials to avoid simply throwing things away that end up in landfills.



Excellent. you Da man Smile Smile Smile
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