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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 6430
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:

OPIOD users...77 of the 82 top counties where deaths were highest were TRUMP counties...its the white killer...

Wow, what a stretch!
Can you imagine how much more Trump would have won those counties if those, hooked on opioids, or dead because of opioids, actually voted?

You're not kidding!!I'm thinking he wins West Virginia, Kentucky, and Arkansas by another 5 points each if all the dosers voted...

NW, my satire is rooted in the idea that the rest of the country loves loves loves to give advice to us Blue states..So , I think Trump is onto something with the OPIOD effort...I think he really locks down the toothless vote, along with the sitting on the couch watching Breaking Bad vote....
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 8599
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsurfer wrote:
real-human wrote:
wsurfer wrote:
MalibuGuru wrote:
Trust me. In a decade, when people who smoke dope are dying like flies, there will be outrage.


It may take less time. Statistics show those who smoke marijuana have 10 times the damage than by one cigarette. That's why group of doctors suggest taking it as a suppository. Please DON'T pass the joint!!!
Oh and by the way, until big business latches on to the legalization of marijuana we won't see the big sales and marketing campaigns. Right now people buy it because they like it, not because some man on the TV told them so.
There may be an outrage but the people will have died happy, probably having therapy until their dying day!



Can you send a link to that. You may have only gotten the government side of the argument. Not that I read much on it but saw studies like that 30 years ago by the government that were ripped apart by objective people.

Was that the study done with the super strains that are grown now or with the hemp rope grades? That experiment the government used samples that were so low in their THC levels that you had to smoke like a chain smoker to get the desired effect.

From what I remember of those counter objections with the newer strains one only smokes 1/? 10th or so of a cigarette , and that other deliver systems in practice in recent years virtually eliminate the by-products that were similar to the bad of tobacco that are deemed harmful.

Needless to say in Holland it has been legal there for 30 or so years. I think if there was a huge spike in any category it would be headlines. I bet still to this day the dutch have a longer life span average. and chocolate, butter, whole milk, cheese are consumed in larger per capita than probably most in the world. So if pot was bad as noted it should be reflected in huge numbers. Remeber the USA does not do research to find the good qualities, it only funds research to show it is bad, and I do not think to date they have ever been able to show horrible effects.

Ya I am pretty much in favor of vending machine/ATM distribution of many drugs with a prescription. I just heard about these a few weeks ago. I was just talking to a doctor from Vancouver and he mentioned those may be coming to Vancouver, maybe just a concept was not taking notes.



This guy current research going.
http://profiles.ucsf.edu/matthew.springer#toc-id1

Although they've been toking for 30 years studies are just going on now.
Look how long it took to correlate tobacco health issues.
Happy reading!

https://www.livestrong.com/article/125021-differences-between-smoking-cigarettes-/

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318854.php

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/31/2/280

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2516340/

http://www.salaficlothing.com/marijuana-could-contribute-to-lung-cancer/


what I read in here is they claim a person also smokes an entire joint like a cigarette smoker. That is laughable research and how clueless they are. ya maybe 1 in 40 joint smokers are like that. from what I have witnessed which is opposite a cigarette it is passed around and many 3-5 hits are taken. where a cigarette is never passed around and the person smokes the entire one by themselves. The fact that this was not discussed yet evaluated on such a premiss is those actual studies are fired. and the new type where the planteee material is not burned is also not discussed. Or I have heard in CO baked you do not damage to lungs.

your first link shows no results.

second link did you read this, it has no basis for the 50-70% again people may smoke 1/20 of the ditchweed of yesterday that the government deceptively used for their basis. But you link says it may be benificial in stoping cancer.

Quote:
Marijuana contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke, and thus has the potential to cause cancer. However, Donald Tashkin, M.D., professor of medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA in Los Angeles, has found that marijuana use is not linked to an increase in lung, head or neck cancers. Tashkin surmises that this is due to a chemical within marijuana that kills off cells before they become cancerous.


third link, it says small sample size and larger is needed, but here is one of their findings vs tobacco.
Quote:
No link was found between the use of marijuana and the risk of death from heart disease and cerebrovascular disease, the team reports.


4th is a decent one but again they do not address the superweeds that people do not have to smoke as much, but again here is directly taken from their report it is duplicate of the ncbi one. and the last one is just citing the previous one. so the last 3 were identicle.

Quote:
Conversely, there is also evidence that delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol may have anti-carcinogenic effects 1113.

Epidemiological evidence for an association between cannabis and lung cancer is limited and conflicting.


so as I said nothing to support the claim made by the government some 30 or so years ago, that did not take into consideration the real world of super strains like sold in dispensaries vs ditch weed, and eating it as sold in dispensaries, and other delivery methods, and that one person does not smoke the entire cigarette like they do with tobacco. funded by just say no... with no scientific reality. Researched by the right wing scientists who still conclude the earth is just 4000 years old +/- a few.

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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 4964
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
nw30 wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:

OPIOD users...77 of the 82 top counties where deaths were highest were TRUMP counties...its the white killer...

Wow, what a stretch!
Can you imagine how much more Trump would have won those counties if those, hooked on opioids, or dead because of opioids, actually voted?

You're not kidding!!I'm thinking he wins West Virginia, Kentucky, and Arkansas by another 5 points each if all the dosers voted...

NW, my satire is rooted in the idea that the rest of the country loves loves loves to give advice to us Blue states..So , I think Trump is onto something with the OPIOD effort...I think he really locks down the toothless vote, along with the sitting on the couch watching Breaking Bad vote....

Okay, since you're into satire......... opioids kill black people also.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4423

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breaking Bad was great, Boggs sounds like a THIS IS US kind of guy, my wife and sisters favorite. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9050

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I don't need to be taxed against sticking my finger in a light socket to know that there's no positive outcome to that action.



NP, quitting for me wasn't about taxation. The California regulations that spurred me to quit was the fact that I could no longer smoke in my office, or in any of the buildings where I worked. If you wanted to smoke, you had to take a break and go outside to do it. While I never got any negative pressure from management about my smoking, it seemed like such a waste of time. That ultimately helped me to recognize the foolishness of my addiction and the futility in investing in it.

Lastly, I started smoking regularly as a teenager. Both of my parents were very heavy smokers during my childhood, and unfortunately, that can influence your life and the decisions that you make. Also, when you are young, you feel invincible, and you are far less likely to think about the negative health effects of smoking. Once you are addicted, it becomes a habit that weaves its way into your life, and its quite a challenge to quit. Many folks can't quit, but to my benefit and to those around me, I was one of those that could.
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 690

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

real-human wrote:
wsurfer wrote:
real-human wrote:
wsurfer wrote:
MalibuGuru wrote:
Trust me. In a decade, when people who smoke dope are dying like flies, there will be outrage.


It may take less time. Statistics show those who smoke marijuana have 10 times the damage than by one cigarette. That's why group of doctors suggest taking it as a suppository. Please DON'T pass the joint!!!
Oh and by the way, until big business latches on to the legalization of marijuana we won't see the big sales and marketing campaigns. Right now people buy it because they like it, not because some man on the TV told them so.
There may be an outrage but the people will have died happy, probably having therapy until their dying day!



Can you send a link to that. You may have only gotten the government side of the argument. Not that I read much on it but saw studies like that 30 years ago by the government that were ripped apart by objective people.

Was that the study done with the super strains that are grown now or with the hemp rope grades? That experiment the government used samples that were so low in their THC levels that you had to smoke like a chain smoker to get the desired effect.

From what I remember of those counter objections with the newer strains one only smokes 1/? 10th or so of a cigarette , and that other deliver systems in practice in recent years virtually eliminate the by-products that were similar to the bad of tobacco that are deemed harmful.

Needless to say in Holland it has been legal there for 30 or so years. I think if there was a huge spike in any category it would be headlines. I bet still to this day the dutch have a longer life span average. and chocolate, butter, whole milk, cheese are consumed in larger per capita than probably most in the world. So if pot was bad as noted it should be reflected in huge numbers. Remeber the USA does not do research to find the good qualities, it only funds research to show it is bad, and I do not think to date they have ever been able to show horrible effects.

Ya I am pretty much in favor of vending machine/ATM distribution of many drugs with a prescription. I just heard about these a few weeks ago. I was just talking to a doctor from Vancouver and he mentioned those may be coming to Vancouver, maybe just a concept was not taking notes.



This guy current research going.
http://profiles.ucsf.edu/matthew.springer#toc-id1

Although they've been toking for 30 years studies are just going on now.
Look how long it took to correlate tobacco health issues.
Happy reading!

https://www.livestrong.com/article/125021-differences-between-smoking-cigarettes-/

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318854.php

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/31/2/280

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2516340/

http://www.salaficlothing.com/marijuana-could-contribute-to-lung-cancer/


what I read in here is they claim a person also smokes an entire joint like a cigarette smoker. That is laughable research and how clueless they are. ya maybe 1 in 40 joint smokers are like that. from what I have witnessed which is opposite a cigarette it is passed around and many 3-5 hits are taken. where a cigarette is never passed around and the person smokes the entire one by themselves. The fact that this was not discussed yet evaluated on such a premiss is those actual studies are fired. and the new type where the planteee material is not burned is also not discussed. Or I have heard in CO baked you do not damage to lungs.

your first link shows no results.

second link did you read this, it has no basis for the 50-70% again people may smoke 1/20 of the ditchweed of yesterday that the government deceptively used for their basis. But you link says it may be benificial in stoping cancer.

Quote:
Marijuana contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke, and thus has the potential to cause cancer. However, Donald Tashkin, M.D., professor of medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA in Los Angeles, has found that marijuana use is not linked to an increase in lung, head or neck cancers. Tashkin surmises that this is due to a chemical within marijuana that kills off cells before they become cancerous.


third link, it says small sample size and larger is needed, but here is one of their findings vs tobacco.
Quote:
No link was found between the use of marijuana and the risk of death from heart disease and cerebrovascular disease, the team reports.


4th is a decent one but again they do not address the superweeds that people do not have to smoke as much, but again here is directly taken from their report it is duplicate of the ncbi one. and the last one is just citing the previous one. so the last 3 were identicle.

Quote:
Conversely, there is also evidence that delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol may have anti-carcinogenic effects 1113.

Epidemiological evidence for an association between cannabis and lung cancer is limited and conflicting.


so as I said nothing to support the claim made by the government some 30 or so years ago, that did not take into consideration the real world of super strains like sold in dispensaries vs ditch weed, and eating it as sold in dispensaries, and other delivery methods, and that one person does not smoke the entire cigarette like they do with tobacco. funded by just say no... with no scientific reality. Researched by the right wing scientists who still conclude the earth is just 4000 years old +/- a few.


First link shows his current research. Google matthew springer tobacco marijuana. He is anti-smoke, albeit tobacco or marijuana.

The real point is NOT enough long term studies have been done.
This could lead to things such as corporate sales and marketeering of marijuana when legalized. I kind of remember with tobacco " More doctors smoke Camel than any other brand".
If you are pro, that's nice.
Just saying you can't poo poo research by gov or anyone else until it's actually done. When they say " no link" they really mean not yet from current data.
Just wait until we get the real bad news on nano debris !!!
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Smile Smile
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 8599
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsurfer wrote:


First link shows his current research. Google matthew springer tobacco marijuana. He is anti-smoke, albeit tobacco or marijuana.

The real point is NOT enough long term studies have been done.
This could lead to things such as corporate sales and marketeering of marijuana when legalized. I kind of remember with tobacco " More doctors smoke Camel than any other brand".
If you are pro, that's nice.
Just saying you can't poo poo research by gov or anyone else until it's actually done. When they say " no link" they really mean not yet from current data.
Just wait until we get the real bad news on nano debris !!!
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Smile Smile


the government has had plenty of time to research. And has plenty of money to. Again has been tolerated in Holland for 30 years for small use so plenty of data should one want the current longest amount of data. Just as one of the sources you cited they used data from a small group, well the data from Holland is a very large sample and has plenty of time.

again as I have stated most are smoking tests of the old pot method, none on ingesting as it does not cause lung cancer and other of the most severe problems from like tobacco, not one study cited as it is easy. again when any source does not discuss this in the scientific community it is failed science and not accepted for which it stood for.

https://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/legal-status-cannabis-netherlands-overview/


netherlands life expectancy in world standards is number 14, usa 31. Canada 12. I think Parts of canada are not enforced strictly like BC. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/netherlands-life-expectancy

search life expectancy Netherlands by year, and for the past 30 or so years the life expectancy has also gone up at a greater rate than USA, so no major indicator they are doing anything wrong. One could argue that maybe their higher increase in life expectancy over ours could be allow pot legalization. ag30 years of legalization or more is plenty of data. The reason one can conclude is they do not want the truth that would potentially really harm their bias.

wiki
Quote:

Usage
A 2004 study by the University of Victoria and Simon Fraser University found that 53 percent of BC residents had tried cannabis at least once.[1]

In the city of Vancouver, there are several cannabis coffee shops where cannabis is smoked openly (but not sold) and personal use throughout the city is tolerated by local police.[6]

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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 6430
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
Breaking Bad was great, Boggs sounds like a THIS IS US kind of guy, my wife and sisters favorite. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Breaking Bad was a masterpiece....incredible .. I binge watched it in 2016 in a week while home recovering from a rotator cuff surgery. 10 hours a day on Vicodin ( good opioid) ...
Btw- I do like This is Us👍...
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2564

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
"I don't need to be taxed against sticking my finger in a light socket to know that there's no positive outcome to that action.



NP, quitting for me wasn't about taxation. The California regulations that spurred me to quit was the fact that I could no longer smoke in my office, or in any of the buildings where I worked. If you wanted to smoke, you had to take a break and go outside to do it. While I never got any negative pressure from management about my smoking, it seemed like such a waste of time. That ultimately helped me to recognize the foolishness of my addiction and the futility in investing in it.

Lastly, I started smoking regularly as a teenager. Both of my parents were very heavy smokers during my childhood, and unfortunately, that can influence your life and the decisions that you make. Also, when you are young, you feel invincible, and you are far less likely to think about the negative health effects of smoking. Once you are addicted, it becomes a habit that weaves its way into your life, and its quite a challenge to quit. Many folks can't quit, but to my benefit and to those around me, I was one of those that could.


I'm sure this will draw some criticism, but I will NOT hire smokers - PERIOD!!!! I'm not paying them to have their "smoke breaks" nor will I be left dealing with their excessive time off for smoking related illnesses. Awesome that you were able to quit. I participate in a men's group, anyone who tells you that pot is not addictive, and not a gateway drug is an absolute lie sack of crap. I see it every week, and there are men there who only wish they could stop. Most started smoking cigarettes, then pot, then onto other drugs.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4423

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
mat-ty wrote:
Breaking Bad was great, Boggs sounds like a THIS IS US kind of guy, my wife and sisters favorite. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Breaking Bad was a masterpiece....incredible .. I binge watched it in 2016 in a week while home recovering from a rotator cuff surgery. 10 hours a day on Vicodin ( good opioid) ...
Btw- I do like This is Us👍...



Rotator sucks , I trashed mine last year and had surgery in June. didn't kite for 20 weeks. Cool thing, my Dr who is a top notch, shoulders only surgeon is a fellow kiter.

If you like BB, try Ozark on Netflix, reminds me of BB. Also try Sneaky Pete on Amazon, excellent show, and Cranston is mob boss..
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