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Older Race Board(EquipeII)Vs New Starboard 380/377
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locals really like the Dagger. Keep in mind you need an AO at a minimum and for distance cruising I'm starting to play with an on the fly DH.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 495

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:

Really? I found the Kona lifeless and unappealing. Small centerboard combined with fairly wide beam made for marginal railing. Heavy weight had it less than fast to plane.

I'm sure they are fun to race, I like one design classes, but that is where the appeal ends for me.


I race long boards at least once a week for 6 months each year. Been doing this for a long time. Most days include about an hour long free ride session before the races start. As a racing group, we've concluded that the Kona One is the most fun free ride longboard we've ever used. It planes earlier than the older boards and, for some reason, we all notice that we never really have to think about staying upwind while planing with the centerboard up. With older boards, free riding sessions always seemed to involve putting the centerboard down for a while to get upwind. Not that you couldn't keep them upwind. But it seemed that slightly higher than beam reach was sluggish. The soft rails are also a big contributor to making the board fun for free riding. The boxy railed racing machines just can't surf swells like the Kona.

Now, when it comes time to race, the older longboards get upwind faster than Kona because of the way they rail and glide. So, again, it comes down to the course. Old longboards win windward/leewards. Kona wins races with long reaches in planing conditions. Very predictable.

SeaDawg is curious about racing comparisons, but uses his longboard for freeriding.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For beam reaching in planing conditions I can't think of a board I'd want less than any longboard. The joy of railing windward and getting maximum efficiency then running deep in subplaning conditions has a lot going for it. If all I wanted was to blast in the straps I have a rack of boards better suited.

The one thing the Kona does better is a step gybe simply because there is a lot less to step on with the flush centerboard. Then again the 377 also has that going for it.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 495

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
For beam reaching in planing conditions I can't think of a board I'd want less than any longboard. The joy of railing windward and getting maximum efficiency then running deep in subplaning conditions has a lot going for it. If all I wanted was to blast in the straps I have a rack of boards better suited.


From your previous post, I get the impression that you may have ridden a Kona in planing conditions less than 10 times. Is that about right? (You used the word 'found')

This is off topic, but the appealing things about beam reaching on a long board in planing conditions are that if conditions are marginal, the schlogging is so much easier in the lulls and that the centerboard allows you to easily get home or sail upwind to a wind line.

The amount of wind needed to rail upwind on an older longboard is really close to the amount of wind needed to plane on a reach with the Kona.
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 373

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm in good shape with what I've got at this point. I was mostly interested in adding a SB 380 to my collection but there seems not too much to gain.

The real treasure seems to be Dmilovich Tuttle now that I'd want to take for a ride. Happy to see such a strong interest in longboarding. Come spring I always have one on the roof rack along with a short board. It's the long one that hits the water more often......
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2189

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a passion SeaDawg. Longboards are not perfect - nothing in life ever is, but they all have their good, and not so good points.

Of all my memories of windsurfing, from 1982 onwards, though not necessarily upwards, successful longboard cruise journeys are fixed in the memory for ever. I've said before that galumphing back at 10m.p.h. from Staffa (that famous cave) in a steady force 3, over a glorious sparkling long smooth swell on a free and easy reach, was longboarding at its very best. That area is renowned for some weird atmospheric effects ( and compass anomalies) and on glancing up at the tip of the mast, at perfect and steady galumph pace, I was astonished to see it appeared to be carving through a high cirrus cloud curtain.

That was the highlight of the day cruise, along with the normal sun burnt face and salt encrusted skin feeling, and all with the camper van stocked with food to return to - not to mention seven cups of tea. ( The 5th is usually the peak of satisfaction after a good feed.

I've done as much shortboarding and surfing as any, but I feel that a great day on the longboard , in wonderful isolated sea surroundings, can have an effect on the soul that locks into the memory for ever.

But as said - it isn't always quite so perfect, I can curse as well as anybody else!!
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 373

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gurgle.....jump a jet and fly into Buffalo, NY almost anytime during the summer....I've got boards, a bed and a wee little pond for you to sail in. There's a can of tea that's been in the cuborard since 1958 should be perfect about now. Coffee not quite as cured.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konajoe wrote:

From your previous post, I get the impression that you may have ridden a Kona in planing conditions less than 10 times. Is that about right? (You used the word 'found')

This is off topic, but the appealing things about beam reaching on a long board in planing conditions are that if conditions are marginal, the schlogging is so much easier in the lulls and that the centerboard allows you to easily get home or sail upwind to a wind line.

The amount of wind needed to rail upwind on an older longboard is really close to the amount of wind needed to plane on a reach with the Kona.


Perhaps 2 sessions planing and 2 subplaning. That's all I'd care to freeride one honestly. I didn't find it to plane as quickly as a performance shortboard or sail as efficiently as a raceboard.
The feeling and performance you lose on plane just isn't worth the ability to get upwind that the Kona offers since it just isn't a great board upwind.

We run open races on triangle courses, if it floats and you can stand on it you can race it. Even with better rigs Konas can't compete although conditions usually favor longboards. I'm sure they make a fun one-design class, but why spend $1200 when a $200 board smokes you every time?
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2189

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank's for the tongue in cheek offer SeaDawg, but I've let my passport lapse and no longer need to travel abroad. I'm fortunate enough to have countless Scottish islands and wonderful coastlines to 'play' among.

Funny you should mention the 1958 can of tea. Many of the smaller Scottish islands used to be inhabited, but most were abandoned by the mid 1950's. I landed on one in the late 60's (by kayak) and explored some of the deserted buildings. On the mantlepiece of one was a tea caddy complete with dried up and withered tea leaves and a little silvery scoop. Couldn't resist liberating it for a keep-sake. (Though no way was I willing to try and brew any of it!!)

Even more strange was a building which had clearly been a small general store, and the loft was piled with copies of Readers Digest magazines, and 16 huge foot wide round balls of string!

Things have changed since that time, and all those small islands with deserted crofts are now 'no go' areas, and strictly private. The last lot to try and take over those crofts in the 1970's were hippies, but they didn't last long. Life on such a place is hard, and very very boring. A false paradise indeed!

I met two couples who had been part of that group, but who had left and set up with a fishing co-operative on the mainland. We discussed (or they did) the nature of freedom, but I thought they were deluding themselves. Their freedom had become sheer drudgery, and somewhat stressful, with very little (or so it seemed to me) purpose or future. After all, they would never have had the means to buy a longboard and rig when windsurfing had been invented, would they! Laughing
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dmilovich



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SeaDawg - An offer for you: let me know when you're in Salt Lake City, and I'll get you on it. We'll take the hollow board out with the MEqIIXR and get some sailing in. Got a 7.5 and 9.8 and plenty of wetsuits, if needed.

As Gurgle says, they're all fun.

Gurgle - really liked the evocative sailing and kayaking tales. Wow, how eerie and wondrous to explore those deserted homesteads. Thanks for relating them!
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