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Nutty California
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 15541
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
mac said:
Quote:
Techno’s post actually contained virtually nothing about Bonta’s proposal. But Techno didn’t want a discussion, or facts.

Well, if you think that critical information was missing in what was posted regarding Bonta's bill, please share with the rest of us. Are you a supporter of a wealth tax in California, that continues for 10 years after moving out of the state?

If billionaires are being taxed every year on their profits by the state, why should they be taxed again every year on their net worth in addition to the annual state tax? Socialism big time.

I guess California's cheap labor has got to be paid for with additional taxes:

Illegal Immigration Costs California $30.3 Billion A Year—17.7 Percent Of State Budget. This equates to $7,352 per illegal alien. And this information is three years old.

https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/02/21/costs-illegal-immigration-california/

And then there is this:
Quote:
Apr 16, 2020 · In a move that will cost taxpayers in California $75 million, Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Wednesday that the state will give up to 150,000 illegal aliens $500 each as part of its coronavirus relief efforts.


I guess when your are desperate, a wealth tax makes sense.


Trolling and panicky white stuff again.

Do some homework if you want to have a serious discussion. Here is Rob Bonta’s website. Find a bill on taxation, download it, read it, and tell us why you think it is bad policy. Or continue trolling and panicking about immigrants and posting stuff right wing sites send you to gin you up. Your choice. Be an adult or a troll.

https://a18.asmdc.org/
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2969

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="mrgybe"]
coachg wrote:
You are not in the same league as Berkeley, but I doubt you would want parents, school officials or students to see your repeated contemptuous dismissal of large segments of the country as racist or ignorant. If you wouldn't say it to them, don't say it online.


Your hypocrisy is showing again; okay for conservatives to bash liberal states but not the other way around. The parents & students know my opinion on states that have continued to fly confederate flags, monuments & statues in public places as badges of honor; and I have yet to meet one that doesn't share that opinion. Of course I coach in a northern state & until recently I'm sure my opinion wouldn't be shared in a southern state.

Coachg
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 15541
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silence is complicity. There is no credible way you can ignore the 150 + confederate memorials in the state of North Carolina alone, most on public property, and then deny that institutional racism exists.

Silence is complicity.

By the way, I never introduce politics to my students. Like religion, their political views, and mine, are their own and protected by privacy. I do not, however, let them get away with bullying.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3805

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every state has issues, nothing new with that. North Carolina as well as many other states have been aggressively dealing with the concerns of the black community, including removing statutes on public land. Private property is another issue. I support the things that I believe will improve my state, and removing the statues is fine with me, but I do believe that there is a place for them somewhere, where the historical implications (even negative) can be preserved as a part of our country's past history.

This whole thread surfaced because California, under it's current liberal leadership has been digging a financial hole that may be impossible to climb out from. I could have picked on other states, but Calif. is where I grew up, and I hate to see where it is going. Most of the things that I have posted are samples of what can happen when the left pushes too hard to the left, including illegal immigration. There are plenty of other liberal states that are just as nutty.

When it comes to "silence is complicity", Mac won't respond to the earlier part of this current topic - is a wealth tax something that he supports, including 10 years post moving out of state. I have offered my opinion/concern above, but his silence as well as the rest of the lefties here suggests to me that the wealth tax is a nutty option.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 4878

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Your hypocrisy is showing again; okay for conservatives to bash liberal states but not the other way around.

How old are you? Isn't it the goal of an educator to improve their students? Do you tell your football players that it's OK to punch back if someone punches them? Or to tell other students that they are stupid if they hold a different view? Justifying bad behavior by pointing to the alleged bad behavior of others is not persuasive. If I recall correctly Techno's views on CA have credibility since he used to live there and his brother still does. He criticizes proposed tax policy or spending programs and backs it up with opinion pieces and data. Your response is to repeatedly dismiss his state........one you have never visited....... as racist and ignorant. See the difference? I doubt your parents and students have heard you express those views.......neither should they from someone who is supposed to show them a better way.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 15541
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Every state has issues, nothing new with that. North Carolina as well as many other states have been aggressively dealing with the concerns of the black community, including removing statutes on public land. Private property is another issue. I support the things that I believe will improve my state, and removing the statues is fine with me, but I do believe that there is a place for them somewhere, where the historical implications (even negative) can be preserved as a part of our country's past history.

This whole thread surfaced because California, under it's current liberal leadership has been digging a financial hole that may be impossible to climb out from. I could have picked on other states, but Calif. is where I grew up, and I hate to see where it is going. Most of the things that I have posted are samples of what can happen when the left pushes too hard to the left, including illegal immigration. There are plenty of other liberal states that are just as nutty.

When it comes to "silence is complicity", Mac won't respond to the earlier part of this current topic - is a wealth tax something that he supports, including 10 years post moving out of state. I have offered my opinion/concern above, but his silence as well as the rest of the lefties here suggests to me that the wealth tax is a nutty option.


Oh really? You sent a troll message that was not specific, and have not followed up with any actual homework to indicate what new legislation you are concerned about. I would guess you didn't bother to check Bonta's site or look for legislation that you actually critique. I have made clear that I support progressive taxation, but think there are significant problems in California with a system that under-taxes the middle class, and particularly homeowners, for the services they demand. But those are my objections to existing laws, and I don't see a viable legislative proposal--from either Democrats or Republicans--that would make things either better or worse. You have made no compelling case that you have a solution to propose--which is typical of most of your posts. No solutions, just bitching.

On the other hand, a general comment like "California has been digging a financial hole yada yada" are so unspecific that it comes across as just a troll. All of the states, and local governments, have been fiscally hammered by the collapse of the economy under COVID. Small businesses have folded their tents at an unprecedented rate. Congress moved, initially in a bi-partisan manner, to provide some relief that targeted employees losing their jobs, recognizing that this remains a consumer economy and without spending there is no economic recovery.

Republican leadership in the country failed to realize that consumers and workers would not, and could not, return to their jobs and spending patterns without a response to the virus that provided a pathway to safety. Instead of doing that hard work, your trolls have compared this to the flu and your politicians have cut unemployment benefits and tried to shelter businesses from liability so they can force people back to work without ensuring their safety. They have argued, without much in the way of facts to support them, that workers are getting so much money that they would rather stay home than return to work--ignoring the obvious failures of the nation in providing a safe path back to work. The Senate's Republicans have decided to stiff local governments and small businesses, despite the fact that there are enough Republicans and Democrats to pass some form of relief. Trump has proposed to cut Social Security taxes--which has little to no relief value, and looks like simply a step to attack Social Security. Trump continues to attack the ACA, despite the fact that tens of millions have lost their health insurance.

As usual, trolling and criticism without realistic proposals for solutions.
Whatever Bonta said, and whether it was accurately reported by your always suspect sources, is pretty much trivial unless there is an actual piece of legislation that gets passed. Not going to happen in California this year.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9831

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900, maybe all the statues celebrating traitors to the United States can be moved to that famous "Confederate Museum" located in the deep South, somewhere. There must be so many folks that flock there already. It's obviously the best choice moving into the future.

To augment the museum's attractions, maybe some enterprising Southern-minded entrepreneurs could create a magnificent amusement park and wonderland. Just imagine, a fancy Trump hotel and golf course to push it over the top.

In the South, some people just aren't ready to abandon the idea that the Confederacy was a noble and admirable cause. Isn't it what all those Confederate statues were about in the first place, many of which were created many decades after the Civil War? It was about keeping the treasonous idea of the Confederacy, and its people, alive long into the future.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 15541
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chandler—one of my old interns, Kirk Savage, wrote the seminal book on the confederate monuments, “Standing Soldiers, kneeling Slaves.” https://muse.jhu.edu/book/55664

The monuments were installed at the end stage of resistance to reconstruction. They were part of a comprehensive effort to strip power from African Americans and to reassert white supremacy. That effort was enforced by violence, and effectively prevented blacks from voting until after the Civil Rights Act of 1965.

Efforts to prevent minorities from voting continue as fundamental GOP policy.

Silence is complicity. Just incidentally, I’ve been to North Carolina many times.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 15541
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
mac said:
Quote:
Techno’s post actually contained virtually nothing about Bonta’s proposal. But Techno didn’t want a discussion, or facts.

Well, if you think that critical information was missing in what was posted regarding Bonta's bill, please share with the rest of us. Are you a supporter of a wealth tax in California, that continues for 10 years after moving out of the state?

If billionaires are being taxed every year on their profits by the state, why should they be taxed again every year on their net worth in addition to the annual state tax? Socialism big time.

I guess California's cheap labor has got to be paid for with additional taxes:

Illegal Immigration Costs California $30.3 Billion A Year—17.7 Percent Of State Budget. This equates to $7,352 per illegal alien. And this information is three years old.

https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/02/21/costs-illegal-immigration-california/

And then there is this:
Quote:
Apr 16, 2020 · In a move that will cost taxpayers in California $75 million, Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Wednesday that the state will give up to 150,000 illegal aliens $500 each as part of its coronavirus relief efforts.


I guess when your are desperate, a wealth tax makes sense.


Oh look, someone desperate to reinforce his prejudices that immigration is bad. So he goes to a 2017 editorial from national economics editorial—an extremely biased source that is not known for their ability to report facts. When you don't have the facts to support your prejudices—make some up, or post something from someone who has made them up. Hannity and these guys will suffice—particularly if it reinforces your white panic.

For chandler. From “Standing Soldiers, Kneeling Slaves”:

Quote:
Reconstruction failed because it could not (or would not) reconstruct the cultural structures underlying slavery: the idea of race and the idea of a nation built on racial opposition.


This battle played out in the installation of thousands of confederate monuments, not only in the south, and the defense of those monuments and the suppression of voting by violence. Good people? Good people don’t chant “Jews won’t replace us.”

Trump has used racial resentment as a fundamental tool in his election and governance.

Silence is complicity.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9831

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac, you do realize that my last post included an element of satire, right?

Overall though, we must realize that folks in America, however misguided, can privately worship and herald the heroes of the Confederacy. I can only hope that this kind thing isn't generally acceptable on the federal, state or local government levels like it has been for far too many years.

Things are beginning to change, and that's a good sign.
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