| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
|
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: |
 |
|
On the face of a wave - good jibe, but not a planing jibe as the wave is passing him by. However if he had stayed on the face, he likely would have stayed on plane. That's not what most of us are dealing with.
Unless we are on protected flat water on lakes or sounds, jibing with a 6.5 on a 110 L board in 20 mph winds (board speed at 25 mph+) results in maybe a 20' radius, bumping over the backs of 2-3 small 1-2' waves. The wave period or the number of waves you cross in the jibe depends on the wind speed and water depth. Lots of variables, but a snap jibe on the face of a wave isn't a frequent option for us inland/sound/bay sailors.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
boardsurfr
Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| techno900 wrote: | | Unless we are on protected flat water on lakes or sounds, jibing with a 6.5 on a 110 L board in 20 mph winds (board speed at 25 mph+) results in maybe a 20' radius, bumping over the backs of 2-3 small 1-2' waves. |
A 20' radius jibe is still very tight, in the snap jibe territory. Looking at GPS tracks, typical jibe diameters for planing jibes on flat water or chop are in the 30-50 m range, corresponding to a radius of 50-80 feet. Typically, it's much easier to plane through the wider jibes; planing through a snap jibe pretty much requires the push of a wave.
An example with numbers from GPS Action Replay is shown in the attached image.
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
71.12 KB |
| Viewed: |
5474 Time(s) |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PeconicPuffin
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
alap and others,
Jingebritsen makes a good point:
| jingebritsen wrote: | lightest of winds planing jibes tend to be ducks for me. short and wide boards planes early, but do not glide. they need power on most all the time. duck jibes are power off for the shortest of duration.
culture seems to restrict most folks. they tend to claim they need to work on regular turns first. too bad, ducks are easier to learn. |
Peter Hart says on one of his videos that the duck jibe is the first jibe many windsurfers first plane out of. The undisturbed carve and the power features jingebritsen cites are the reason.
You might try some in the 6-7 meter range. They are educational in regards to standard step jibes in that they make obvious how soon you want to be powered up after the sail flip.
There's video of a 7.5 duck jibe in this blog post:
http://www.peconicpuffin.com/the_peconic_puffin/2018/07/duck-jibing-a-75.html
There's no reason not to start working on duck jibes even while you're still working out step jibe kinks. Peter Hart approved!
_________________
Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
boardsurfr - you are right, my 20' radius was smaller than I was shooting for. It really is much larger, but my point is that the bump, bump, bump over the chop is the challenge rather than a smooth carve on the face of a wave.
When I sail at the Outer Banks, the inside protected jibes are somewhat easy to do and stay on plane. The outside jibes in the chop/waves is another story.
My first trip to the Gorge was in 1985 where I camped at Maryhill. The waves there were plenty big and carving a jibe on the face was the first time I did planing jibes. Much more difficult when I returned home to lake sailing.
Last edited by techno900 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PeconicPuffin wrote: | Meanwhile alap and grantmac are sailing with much more speed than Isobars, and going for true planing jibes. They would be flying by Iso on the water. The 7.5 jibe he describes is semiplaning, more what Peter Hart refers to as a "Flarve"...carve in, flare (pivot jibe) out.
| isobars wrote: | | It takes well under one second to go from sheeted in on starboard to sheeted in on port, so any speed loss is imperceptible. |
That's a nonplaning pivot jibe, not a planing jibe. I still doubt you pull it off in less than two seconds. As for the imperceptible speed loss, you must be sailing very slowly to begin with. Would love to see video of you demonstrating the jibe you describe. |
You guys have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Just because you don't and/or can't sail or jibe the same way I do does not mean it can't be done. The most common comments on my sailing are my high speed in big/rough terrain, my very aggressive/tight/high speed carving jibes, my maximum-speed broad reach dismount, and the fact that my jibe success rate has suffered dramatically during and since my chemotherapy.
We've beaten your video ultimatum to death several times before.
| PeconicPuffin wrote: | | For anyone working on a planing jibe...sailing fully powered in the foot straps, exiting the jibe still planing, with a 7.5 sail 4 seconds would be very fast to complete the transition. |
Um ... that's my point, and it's part of why I lose almost no ground when I jibe compared to a tack.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| techno900 wrote: | | The real world for most guys on this forum looking for helpful info are on intermediate boards and sails. 6.5 - 7.5 and 100-140 L boards. |
As was I for close to a decade, during which I was making little progress in my jibes. Only when I got much more aggressive in the carve, in spinning the sail, and in switching my feet ... and especially when I began sailing slalom boards in the 95-110L range designed to turn -- did my full planing jibes become consistent. As a bonus, with minor variations the same overall technique works for underpowered/subplaning jibes, overpowered jibes, boards from 55 to 115 liters, and sails from 2.8 to 7.5.
| techno900 wrote: | | Newer boards are wide and require a bigger radius to get around. If you can snap them around quickly, you won't be planing as you exit. |
Depends on many factors, including technique, power on hand, hull design, fins, and the definitions of "newer", "wider", "snap", and "quickly". If it were all about board width, good sailors on old school boards would be consistently superior jibers, but that's not evident.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fxop wrote: | Here is a two second jibe, so the sailor must be Isobars before he boycotted Maui.
https://youtu.be/ah9HF1MTVII
I see this type of jibe all the time offshore at the local spot by the most experienced guys. ... Of all the elements we've talked about in this thread the only one I see present is moving the hips in. No over sheeting, no arm extension, the head is moved into the sail, etc etc. Even a little mast grab to round out the list of "defects." |
Now if the guy in that jibe had straightened his front arm, oversheeted, maybe gotten his weight a bit more forward, flipped his sail and his feet simultaneously at about the 1.5 seconds mark, he'd have been on his exit reach sheeted in with both feet near their exit straps by the 2.0-second mark -- with MUCH less physical effort expended and 100% less rig manhandling -- and blasted "out of the frame" halfway through this 4-second video. Instead he chose to do everything sequentially rather than simultaneously and to manhandle his rig while jibing his sail. These things double the time required to jibe, but they aren't "defects"; he's simply chosen to do it his way.
What a concept.
"boycotted Maui"? News to me.
Last edited by isobars on Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| techno900 wrote: | | My first trip to the Gorge was in 1985 where I camped at Maryhill. The waves there were plenty big and carving a jibe on the face was the first time I did planing jibes. Much more difficult when I returned home to lake sailing. |
As you know by now, three keys to jibing in chop are exaggerated knee bend, gittin' her done NOW rather than wasting time sailing downwind, and boards that hold your chosen line when way up on the lee rail.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
philodog
Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 209
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Do you ever get tired of bragging about yourself? Just wondering. Your sailing is boring and mediocre at best.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PeconicPuffin
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| philodog wrote: | | Do you ever get tired of bragging about yourself? Just wondering. Your sailing is boring and mediocre at best. |
Calling out the mediocrity and/or false descriptions is important, not to rag on Iso but to provide perspective to the people who come to these threads looking for advice. When he talks about early sail flips on a 7.5 sail, or jibing in less than a second (and with no loss in speed LOL) it's less important that these are inaccurate statements than they advocate bad technique and imaginary jibes.
| isobars wrote: | | It takes well under one second to go from sheeted in on starboard to sheeted in on port, so any speed loss is imperceptible. |
Maybe if you're shlogging at 3mph. Planing, no way.
I will keep calling for video of you sailing. I will retract my criticisms and eat my words when shown the error of my ways. Surely someone in this forum must sail with you and be willing to shoot some video of you planing through a jibe in well less than a second. Or have someone shoot from shore on their phone. The only video that's ever been posted on iWindsurf of you sailing (since removed by the OP) fit philodog's description. Just another guy on the water. Your jibes were dry, but that was about it.
Please show us how it's done.
Or perhaps it's a difference in terminology. Here's video of a jibe (4.7 sail, 77 liter board). You can use the video player's time read out to measure it. I count 5 seconds from the beginning of the jibe until I'm sheeted in on the new tack. Do you agree that this is 5 seconds? Are you saying that you jibe more than 5 times faster? Also unlike your claim, I lose some speed...I want to know how your jibes compare to this unremarkable jibe of mine. Please bring your analysis to bear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Nlr-Ej92E
_________________
Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
Last edited by PeconicPuffin on Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
|
Search
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Register
