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Why is the Planing Jibe the difference between beg and exp?
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rtz



Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject: Why is the Planing Jibe the difference between beg and exp? Reply with quote

Around here anyways; it's "Oh but he can't Jibe". And it seems the planing Jibe is the defining skill that separates the beginners from the experienced sailors.

I've always wondered; out of everything there is to do; why is this one thing the benchmark or separation? We have people who have been windsurfing since the 1980's and 1990's and still can't do a planing Jibe(and might never since they don't put in the time or take the falls).

A handful of guys can; and all the rest can't. 5 that can; and 30 that can't.

Just like how 30 beginners can sail in light wind conditions for infinity. But sub planing light wind conditions are completely different then a day when it is blowing solidly in the 20mph range gusting to 30+mph or more + the chop on the lake looking and feeling like it is every bit of 2' or 3 high'. Big boards and uphauling in that is something else. Total rodeo riding a big board fast in those conditions too.

So in your sailing area and in your experience; has it seemed the planing Jibe is the benchmark skill that separates the beginners from the experienced?

Sailing for 30 or 40 years is one thing; but can you Jibe?
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's more like the last step out of the intermediate phase.
Beginner stuff is subplaning moves, no footstraps, start of harness use.
Intermediate is comfortable blasting in straps, waterstarts, boards you can't uphaul and planing gybes.

Not saying it's a linear flow, some people loop before they gybe, but it's a reasonable metric.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2143
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is the Planing Jibe the difference between beg and exp? Reply with quote

Yep that's it exactly, followed by how much wind you can sail competently, followed by terrain. Years have little to do with competence. But in a strict
definition of experience, I guess 30 years of non-planning jibes probably
means you're experienced at ……………. non-planning jibes.

If you were bench marking snow skiing, it'd be similar to good carved parallel turn, and pitch/terrain/snow conditions. I've skied with people who've been
on the slopes for 30 years that aren't considered "experts".

The real question is "who cares?". Wave/swell riding is my favorite thing to do but a ripp'n jibe is still a lot of fun. Around here, looping is a discriminator. I can't loop (and at 62 I probably won't ever learn) but it doesn't really effect how much I enjoy the sport.

-Craig

p.s. The nice thing about a carve jibe is it's handy, I mean you've got to turn around eventually, and a good "power" jibe actually saves energy and lets
you sail longer along with being a hoot ;*)

rtz wrote:
So in your sailing area and in your experience; has it seemed the planing Jibe is the benchmark skill that separates the beginners from the experienced. Sailing for 30 or 40 years is one thing; but can you Jibe?
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I would say it is the universal benchmark. If you can loop and Vulcan good for you but if you can't consistently plane out of a jibe you are not an expert. It's amazing even in the Gorge (and probably every other major sail spot) how many people can't jibe well. On a crowded day at the Hatch maybe 10-20% of sailors look like smooth jibers. The rest are struggling.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1078
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a big difference in planing into a jibe and planing with speed when you're doing the flip and sailing away. Having fun is the most important thing and you don't have to be an expert for that. The person having the most fun wins. Attitude is everything. Thanks Bart.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1060

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
Attitude is everything. Thanks Bart.

Agreed. Bart wins.

Watching the PWA slalom in Portugal (what a great spot!), I was amazed how much speed even the really good guys lost around the first mark. Of course, there were plenty of reasons like tactics and other guys, but they had great wind and board speed coming in, and still sometimes just barely planed out - even the guys in front. But then, many slalom boards are a lot harder to jibe that "cheater" boards like my old Skate Smile.


Last edited by boardsurfr on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3908
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friend of mine, after windsurfing for 10 years, decided jibing wasn't his thing...geeze, l actually know 3 guts like that, and found spots where they jibed ONCE in 3 hours of windsurfing.
2 are Ray and Matt, launching at Palo or Agate to sail just N of N. Farralones. The other is Billy, a former lifeguard at Makapuu, my next door neighbor when I stayed on Oahu in the late 80's and early 90's, launching at Kahala, and sailing to Molakai..seeing Haleakala on the last half of the 22 mile reach. I sailed inside the reef, and often made over 150 jibes to his one failed attempt a day.
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DelCarpenter



Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 389
Location: Cedar Falls, IA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my windsurfing world the difference between an intermediate and an expert is the ability to stay right next to the start line without moving forward or back just before a race begins....a very important skill when the start line is short and the wind is not strong enough for planing. In my 16th year of racing about 4 or more events per year I'm still an intermediate.

Planing jibes require consistent conditions as well as consistent skill. At my last racing event (Worthington MN) I saw a lot of expert long board racers fall attempting planing jibes. I've watched those sailors over the years, they really are expert windsurfers. Try making any jibe riding a long board when the wind speed varies from 12 to 20 to 15 in less time than it takes to read this paragraph.

My perspective is that windsurfers who are expert on short boards with 5.5 sails are not as expert as windsurfers who are expert on both long boards with 9.5 sails and short boards with 5.5 sails. Experts on waves adds a another whole category.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1006
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beginner, intermediate or egg spurt ??
what's in a name ?? "a rose is a rose ..."
are we windsurfing to impress others or fall into a category or FUN
you decide for yourself
for me, in the modern world - why can we not be satisfied with less ??
is more better ??
he who dies with the most toys wins ??
hmmm - not sure - know a few with a lotta toys ...
think we can always try new stuff/jibes, etc, but not make that the whole reason we are out there ...
for me TOW = FUN
i rate my sessions and only one failed - equipment failure and spent 2 hours in cold water
keep the stoke !!!
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1697

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Planing through a jibe is, as others have mentioned, generally the dividing line between intermediate windsurfers and advanced windsurfers. It demands board speed, rig handling and board control in combination that's challenging and impossible to fake.

I always liked Dana Miller's quote: Jibing is not easy, and you can not buy one.

There are places (Bonaire, for example) where up and coming windsurfers learn aerial transitions (vulcans, spocks, flakas, etc) before learning to jibe, or they skip jibing completely. Those are advanced transitions. These kids have enough board and rig control skill that they could learn to plane through jibes in a week, if they wanted to (they're able to sail switchstance and duck the sail into planing backwinded!)

Meanwhile windsurfing was a wonderful sport for years before planing jibes were even possible, due to the limitations of the equipment.

_________________
Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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