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Why is the Planing Jibe the difference between beg and exp?
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alap,
The only thing holding you back is fear of failure. There is a saying posted in our football locker room. It says if I put a ten foot long 2x12 on the floor & asked you to walk across it you would not hesitate. You would do it a 1,000 times without falling off. But if I put that same 2x12 across two 10 story buildings would you walk across it? It is the same 2x12 that you have walked across 1,000 times without falling yet you hesitate. Why? It is the fear of failure. It is the same 2x12 that is on the ground, it is the same width & the same length. The only difference is the fear of failure.

You won't get better unless you push the envelope. Wear a PFD & your waterstart will not drain any energy.

Coachg
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1158

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put your jibing experts here and see what happens...


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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
alap wrote:
the biggest problem learning to jibe is that the practice time is very limited.
Say the reach is 5 minutes, so in an hour you can make 12 jybes max. Provided all jybes are successful and the wind cooperates on every jybe (no lull or crazy gust the moment you need to jybe)


Ahh, there is your problem. Just because the reach is 5 minutes doesn't mean you have to go for 5 minutes before you jibe or tack.

Coachg


FIVE ALARM AGREEMENT! I know so many people who only jibe at the "end" of the reach. That is not how you learn. Jibe on purpose, not because you've run out of water. Go to an ABK clinic and you'll see people sail only a few hundred yards out before they tack, jibe, fall down and get back up to work on their transitions again and again.

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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manuel wrote:
Put your jibing experts here and see what happens...



Why? The thread is about planing jibes. Put the storm chaser windsurfers in a freestyle contest and see what happens. Put freestyle champions in a Bay Area course race and see what happens. Put course racing champions in a flowstyle contest and see what happens.

Back to those following the thread topic: Listen to CoachG if you're pursuing the jibe. Anyone can learn to plane through jibes if they put the time in. And planing through jibes is fun. Through duck jibes is even more fun (which are easy to learn once you're planing through step jibes...and some people plane through ducks first).

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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PP, I dare to disagree with you. The method you describe throws the baby away with a dirty water. Where is the fun?

Coach is more correct, in terms that my problem is more related to the brain than to the body. But not in terms of fear of failure but rather very bad muscle memory accumulated over first 25 years. During that time I was kinda trying this and that, listening to all kind of advice, exactly like with all other things (skiing, sup surfing) - oh, it will come. It did not come! Jybe turned out to be a very special challenge for me.

As a result the moment I start to hurry I am unable to keep everything focused. Thats why your advice from prev. thread was so valuable. By unhooking for 3 seconds I can do it perfectly, staying focused. Placing just the back foot out of the strap as a second independent move and waiting for another couple seconds allows me to do just that but again focused, correctly and collect myself for the next phase - which is three things simultaneously - front hand, back hand , body roll.

If I am totally focused I can do just two things (at best), but not all three. I either stand up, or bend my front hand, or sheet out, or I delay the flip. Regardless just doing 2 things out of three results in speedy exit. My body flows into the turn, board makes a very wide turn, I end up roller coasting downwind, the sail is flipped, I have plenty of time and stability to do boom to boom.

And if I do all wrong (stand up, bend front hand and sheet out) - I still end the jybe without falling, although with no speed.

Regardless, my point of jybing counts is still valid, me thinks. Even if my estimate of 50 jybes per session is a low one and is five times lower than could be achieved with complete dedication, still it is 250 jybes max per session. Like one run from good chair lift.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://vimeo.com/232152475
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1158

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PP, because it's all relative. Jibing over flat water near the beach is quite different than jibing over completely messed up water terrain in the middle of breaking waves hundreds of yards away from the beach.

And even then, if I one can master the jibe over rough terrain than one becomes a jibing expert not a windsurfing expert.

That's why we all love the sport, it's nearly limitless, one lifetime won't be sufficient to achieve boredom Very Happy ! There are so many ways to jibe!!!

Why I believe jibing is a good benchmark for a rider's balance is because we need to switch side on the board, sail, and turn while moving. To turn around we can either tack (upwind) or jibe (downwind).

To plane out of jibes, we need lots of board volume, good sail power, flatter waters, a friendly swell, entry speed, great balance, weight transfer (light feet), and timing. The farther away from this, the more difficult it'll be.

And finally, one may choose gear that's not so jibe-planing-friendly to enjoy other aspects of windsurfing.

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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alap wrote:
PP, I dare to disagree with you. The method you describe throws the baby away with a dirty water. Where is the fun?

Coach is more correct, in terms that my problem is more related to the brain than to the body. But not in terms of fear of failure but rather very bad muscle memory accumulated over first 25 years.


There is no doubt that some fun (planing reaches) gets set aside in focused practice of transitions. There may well be lots of falling and/or failure. But it's the best way to break through bad habits, muscle memory etc.

After five years of trying to teach myself jibing I went to Aruba for a week, taking classes almost every day with Dasher. The way he had it set up, each student was to sail away no more than 100 yards, tack (or fall and waterstart) and sail back to him to jibe in front of him. Again and again and again. ABK teaches the same way. The idea is to groove new habits and muscle memory that replace the old bad ones.

That being said, my best friend and windsurfing buddy prefers sailing miles before he jibes. It makes him happy. He knows he'd jibe better if he practiced more jibes, but that's not his priority.

Whatever your baby is, do not throw it out!

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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 209

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The downside of just doing what is fun and not pushing yourself to advance and learn new skills is that eventually you will get bored mowing the lawn and take up kiting. And then you will be one of those annoying ex-windsurfer kiters who talk about how great they were at windsurfing but kiting is so much better. Rolling Eyes
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alap wrote:
But not in terms of fear of failure but rather very bad muscle memory accumulated over first 25 years.


My hardest falls over the last 25 have been on "flat water", ie the washboard or random 1 ft chop on the inshore jibe. I know it means my rail set is imperfect (I do a "micro sheetout") and I am trying to work my way out of it. Give me big rough water any time where I can pick a ramp or wall.


fxop

PS this is why I like the Dasher 12 Step videos. You can pick any single part of the jibe you're trying to polish and work on it intensively.
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