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Long or short harness lines
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you rig a big enough sail to be powered up, you may need to pull the rig over and get smacked by a couple chops in the gusts. I know people who don't have that style but they like being underpowered. If you're using your harness your hands and arms won't get tired. If they do, use more harness and less hands and arms.

Last edited by westender on Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
If you're using your harness your hands and arms won't get tired. If they do, you're only pretending to use the harness.

I LUV IT!

Leave it to Westender to tell it like it is.

Hey, it worked last November.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1158

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not having enough pressure in the harness may not be related to length. Under nearly any conditions, hands only steer the boom, finger tips.

Can sail with no hands? One hand? Are your legs straight and stiff? Especially front one. Knees bend to absorb chop but legs extend to drive power forward.

That imagine of the triangular airplane wing made so much sense to me. We are hear to make sail/board connection as stiff as possible. Maybe firm is a better word but planing is like skipping.

Anyway, to me that's where long lines may outline issues until a certain point. At 5'8” I tried 32 but with lighter winds I had trouble keeping good drive, 30 is perfect for me. Boom about mid height, something like chest.

A looser slower board will need a firmer pilot. Do you usually ride lower volume for a given sail? Smaller fins may lack drive, etc.

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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2296
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Long or short harness lines Reply with quote

rtz wrote:
I like them long so I can feel like I can brace against the pull of the sail better. I've seen guys with them set so short it seems like the sail would be in their face. If I had short harness lines it seems like it would make me have to stand upright on the board?

If you are about to get pulled over; what is you main technique in bracing yourself again the pull of the sail? Can you brace up in such a way that it can not and will not and will never pull you over in a gust?

With really short lines; how do you not get pulled over? How are you able to brace against it?

I sail with someone who has been sailing since 1986 and on a windy day; I'm just putting around on the edge of the lake and he's hooked in; in the straps, and blasting from one side of the lake to the other, all day long; planing. Top speed. I want to be able to do that.


We used very short lines when sailing course-slalom boards in the early to mid 1990s. 22" was a common length. This largely was born out of the way the sails and masts interacted with the board design. Rig very big, sail very powered up (overpowered, actually) and use the short lines to gain instant leverage over the rig.

Today, shortboards tend to be much wider and the sailor stands farther from the centerline. This alone demands longer lines just to reach the hook when sailing in a proper position.

Assuming you can plane while in the footstraps, I can then assume you are not comfortable with the rig when it gets powered up. You express concern about "getting pulled over" in gusts and I offer my response to that, below.

Think about what happens as your rig powers up in a gust. The clew wants to swing away from you and the mast wants do drop to windward. We all experience this when learning on softer sails. As a gust hit we would get slammed to windward until we figured out how to resist that pull and rotation.

A properly balanced set of lines will counteract this rotation of the sail and redirect that rotation through the booms, down the mast and ultimately down onto the board. We call that mast base pressure.

Mast base pressure is required to level the board and allow it to skim smoothly across bumpy water. A harness isn't actually required to achieve mast base pressure but it obviously helps maintain pressure for much longer than without exhaustion.

I suspect your harness lines are positioned too far forward. Try moving both front and back harness straps (attached to the boom on each end) back one inch. You must move both straps, not merely the back one. The desired result will be a stable connection to the rig with the ability to generate a lot of mast base pressure just by laying into your harness. You likely will not be able to hook in as early as before, but that's OK. Just press down on the boom with both hands to hook in once power is in the rig. Your hands might now feel a bit out of position relative to the lines but let your harness dictate where you put your hands. Remember that the goal is to be stable when flying along rather than comfortable when barely planing.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Long or short harness lines Reply with quote

If you want to go fast, that is the job of the skilled Windsurfer. Getting the max power and speed out of your rig without a catapult. Sailing on the ragged edge. You do have a helmet and life jacket?



rtz wrote:
Can you brace up in such a way that it can not and will not and will never pull you over in a gust?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For many years, I've always been all in on using a good helmet, regardless of conditions. When you're going for it, why take untoward risks?

Some of my worst full speed wipeouts were the result of hitting totally unexpected obstacles. Serious business requires a reasonable degree of caution and preparation to be safe.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never wore a helmet in 35 years of shortboarding, 4 Oneill Classics, 4 Strohs World Cups, 200+ wave sailing days including 40+ at Backyards including a handful of closed out days when NO surfers attempted paddling out at Sunset and almost always the fastest in the water..although often the dumbest in race tactics.
Most of the big speed trials sailors back in the early 90's were my sailing buds, as we usually sailed together, me at 145 lbs then, and able to keep up. Never been pulled over, but tend to read the wind well and change when things start to go awry.
Of course, did wear a helmet through 100+ Sunday Morning Rides, 20 AME Road Races, 150+ AMA motocross races, and timed practices at Riverside, Ontario, Willow, Talledega, and Daytona Raceways working for Dunlop tires, Harry Hunt Team Yamaha.
C'mon, in windsurfing you go mostly at 24-40 mph, At Talledega, I got a flat front tire on the banking at an estimated..10,800 rpm 6th gear..around 174 mph.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All you need is a bad accident to get the picture and realize you are not immortal. Mine happened surfing where my board and fin rearranged my face requiring major reconstructive surgery to put it all back together. At the time, I'd been surfing for 20 years, so experience doesn't necessarily protect you from a nasty accident. By the way, I've surfed Sunset Beach too.

It's better to be safe than sorry. So, I don't really worry about looking uncool to some at the beach.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does a helmet save your face?
The extra surface area can twist your neck more than without the helmet. Wear it if you want, but I don't wear a lifevest, flack jacket, shin and knee guards, nor shoulder, neck, wrist, ankle, or knee braces.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I don't expect the helmet to save me from a facial impact like I suffered surfing back in 1983, but I should note that the impact at the time luckily didn't knock me out. Nevertheless, I've never been hit so hard in my life. I was damn lucky that the blow happened below my forehead, yet it still broke my eye socket bone structure, crushed my zygomatic arch, and left me with a sizable gash and nerve damage to my face.

In windsurfing, I wear the helmet to guard against an unexpected blow to my upper head. While I don't think that I've suffered a knockout blow windsurfing, I have still been beaned any number of times by the mast over the years. I'm glad that I've been wearing reasonable protection where I can walk away without the risk and discomfort of getting smacked hard.

Lastly, like you, I don't wear any kind of the extra protection you noted, except for a Gath helmet. Yet, I have to say that I have no disdain for folks that feel the need to wear more protection than I do.
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