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Long or short harness lines
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got tired of broken ribs, and my helmet and face guard have saved my sight and quite likely my life. I have never injured my neck in any of my sports including desert racing.

Back to the topic. All this 32" harness line stuff, locked-out Figure 7 stance, etc. applies only to one kind of WSing: blasting in straight lines. There's much more to the sport than that even in lakes, let alone surf.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're worried about taking a beating, this sport's not for you. Lot's of bleeding and broken bones. Was a guy at the Hatch last week. Probably needed stitches. If your arms are straight it's not easy to sheet out for a killer gust. Is the OP in any high winds?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
If your arms are straight it's not easy to sheet out for a killer gust. Is the OP in any high winds?

Gusts, lulls, wind direction changes, maneuvering just for the halibut ... it all requires sheeting angle changes ranging from fine tuning to near 90 degrees in an instant ... sometimes (often, in my case) followed by a reversal within the same second if maneuvering rapidly. I don't see how that can be done if both arms are straight just to reach the boom. Besides, as was discussed years ago, our joints are strongest when supported by muscles, which happens only between, not at, either extreme of the joints' range. A straight arm under tension places all its pull on ligaments, just begging for a bad shoulder injury.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3546

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Back to the topic. All this 32" harness line stuff, locked-out Figure 7 stance, etc. applies only to one kind of WSing: blasting in straight lines.

I'll call bullshit on this for obvious reasons. Somebody keeps saying something about choices Rolling Eyes

Coachg
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3546

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
If your arms are straight it's not easy to sheet out for a killer gust.

Straight or bent arm's are irrelevant if you are using your harness. People who sail with straight arms sheet in & out through their shoulders.

Coachg
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
If your arms are straight it's not easy to sheet out for a killer gust.

You're holding the sail with 2 arms, so either arm can sheet out. The back arm sheets out by extending, the front arm by pulling.

The natural reaction when the sail pressure increases from a gust is to pull. You can pull at least as well with an extended front arm as you can if the arm is already bent a lot. If the initial stance is an extended front arm, and a slightly less extended back arm, and the instinctive reaction is to pull on both, you end up sheeting out a bit. If you manage to pull just with your front arm, you can sheet out a lot. The same is true if you (also) use your shoulders or rotate your upper body to change the sheeting angle.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys must have some wildly rangy shoulders. If I extend my arms fully, then retract just my shoulders, the total ROM of my fingertips is < 5 inches. Look at the difference between full pushups done with the arms compared to short shoulder-motion-only pushups. That's not going to sweep my sheeting angle from against my leg to way out in front of me. Besides, it's not a healthy, or probably even safe, application of our shoulder girdle ROM for repeated full-strength action. We're supposed to retract our rhomboids and drop our shoulders when pulling, as they are more vulnerable when we allow the opposite. I'm guessing those are among Nevin's reasons for changing his mind.

I don't see how one can sheet in as quickly, powerfully, or safely with a straight arm, because the bicep has minimal leverage when initiating the arm flexion from a locked-out position. To draw from a previous thread, how many DTL wave sailors sail with straight arms?

I'm considering shortening my lines by a couple of inches (by widening them initially, if that's sufficient) because my maneuvering gets more rangy, frequent, quick, and spontaneous as my skills and board selection improve. Considering that at least one successful pro racer's lines are <20 inches, 24s don't seem all that short. I feel quite exposed (to injury) with my elbows extended with them while hooked in.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3546

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many DTL sailors are using the harness when on the wave? None that I have ever watched either live, on TV or on the internet. So I'm not sure where DTL sailing with a harness & straight arms comes in to play in this thread.

Somebody keeps saying something about choices. Hmm, who could that be? Rolling Eyes Instead of pulling with the back arm & loading the back leg you can try to pressing through the front arm & resisting with the front leg. Do I really need to explain to you that the vast majority of humans are stronger at pushing than pulling?

If you want to use short lines, use em. Short or long is neither better nor safer, just different & requiring slightly different technique/stance. There is a reason why harness line lengths come in different sizes, can be moved on the boom, why the boom can be placed at different heights, why the mastbase can be moved forward or backward, why the footstraps have multiple positions, why the outhaul can be adjusted & why the downhaul can be adjusted. Do we have to explain it all over again or do you really believe there is only one setup that works for all people?

Coachg
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the OP is worried about getting pulled over, my warning would relate to the person who may have lines too long, are hunched over reaching as far as they can to keep some tension on the lines with their butt out. Since they're already out of control, a big gust comes along, they might not be able to brace themselves against it or sheet out. I was thinking of this Friday as I was sailing along with no music in my head??

I hope everyone's comments help the OP find his way on the water. I think styles and setup can relate to body type. A short stocky person may want something different than a tall thin one??
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
A short stocky person may want something different than a tall thin one??

How true. Gorge racerhed exrtraodinaire Bruce Peterson is leaner and much taller than I, but uses much shorter lines.
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