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Let's Talk Cammed Sails
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19252

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ss59 wrote:
There really is no mysterious bit of kit that will make progress in windsurfing easier

I suggest one partial exception: learning how to jibe on a board designed to turn. Others have argued long ago that we should make jibing difficult by learning on sharp-edged race boards, so that once we can do that, we can jibe anything ... never mind the additional years that delays our success. Why not learn much more quickly on a board that is eager to carve turns, then transition those skills to more resistant boards, just as we learn to drive in a simple sedan before we try driving an Indy car or a rice-burning drifter.

Maybe learning to jibe on a long, drawn-out, razor-railed race boards of yesteryear explains why so many people lose SO much ground in their jibes to this day by carving these long, drawn-out, jibes.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2276
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
ss59 wrote:
There really is no mysterious bit of kit that will make progress in windsurfing easier

I suggest one partial exception: learning how to jibe on a board designed to turn. Others have argued long ago that we should make jibing difficult by learning on sharp-edged race boards, so that once we can do that, we can jibe anything ... never mind the additional years that delays our success. Why not learn much more quickly on a board that is eager to carve turns, then transition those skills to more resistant boards, just as we learn to drive in a simple sedan before we try driving an Indy car or a rice-burning drifter.

Maybe learning to jibe on a long, drawn-out, razor-railed race boards of yesteryear explains why so many people lose SO much ground in their jibes to this day by carving these long, drawn-out, jibes.


Good observation for those considering "learning to jibe on a long, drawn-out, razor-railed race boards of yesteryear" but I doubt many chose to take that route -if only because most of those boards died the anticipated death of water-logged disposal. How often and recently have you seen a tight, custom slalom board of that era underneath the feat of an intermediate? Those boards (with certain exceptions) were made with carbon-on-styrene to 12-13lb spec. Maybe some Divinicell crept in by the late 80's but nothing like the modern, hybrid sandwich construction methods.

I leaned to jibe effectively on a custom Naish slalom board made for the 1986 World Cup, exactly the kind you decry. The board's combination of blistering speed, handling and light weight provided stability and projection on exit 10x better than my wave board on which I earlier struggled to jibe at Hookipa (with the typical damage to ego and gear).

I suggest your comparison is too generalized and largely moot. Yes, learning to turn a board that is harder to turn than another board often makes learning to turn more difficult. Axiomatic. What boards are sufficiently easy to turn while able to go fast with stability are now a dime per dozen.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19252

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probably right, fortunately for us. But has the gap between very fast boards and very turny boards closed so much that jibing is almost as easy to learn on one as on the other? Doesn't freestyle, or wavesailing, or jumping, or racing, or early planing, etc. progress come significantly faster and easier on a board designed with one of those in mind? The more a sailor can narrow his objectives, the easier it should be to select equipment most conducive to progress towards those goals. Even for something as basic as carving up swell, board design matters a lot even between two boards with similar names and planforms but from different shapers. That's all I'm saying, with jibing as merely an example.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9474

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my surfing days, we always wanted to be on the board that the best guys had. No one wanted to be on something less than that, especially as time moved on.

I've carried that focus into windsurfing, and I'm so glad I did.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately Iso, the blistering speed of freerace boards such as this J.P. Super Sport 74 is NOT compatible with tight gybing ability. The laws of physics don't oblige in that respect.

As the test results (Surf, Germany, on J.P. Super Sport 74, 2011) pointed out 'Tight turns are a weak spot but the J.P. Super sport 74 performs really well when it comes to medium and large radius full speed turns.' That large radius full speed gybing is exactly what I look forward to mastering with it, becuase I've always preferred such, even on fast freeride boards. In fact, I often find a lot of satisfaction in coming out full belt, clew first just for the fun of it. Losing distance downwind is irrelevant when planing is a given.

Unfortunately, the wind at present is either all or nothing, and likely to be so for quite some time. I'm shaking my fist at the sky in frustration. (Life is so unfair when one is on a mission!! Mad Mad )
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add a rather obvious point in favour of large cammed sails on all the light wind days at the coastal places we sail in, those lighter winds are never of a uniform or steady strength. They are up and down over a range like, as one of our coastwatch observers sitting in his little cabin of sensors puts it, a whores knickers!

The readouts all give average strength over a time frame, so if that average was, say, 10m.p.h. it will obviously vary between 4/5 m.p.h. or even less in lulls, to about 13/15 m.p.h. in sometimes prolonged spells. A large cammed sail on a larger freeride or freerace board will give you planing for a decent percentage of the time on the water. On a better day say 50/60% of the time, and on a poorer day perhaps only 10/20% of the time.

If regularly sailing at a given beach you can often interpret the average reading reasonably accurately from past experience. To me, it makes sense to go for it as against what has now become the common practice with many, just sitting all day in the car park, talking a good day. That baffles me since it's not as though they have found anything better to be doing??
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19252

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have at least 37 things better (e.g., more fun, more productive, more urgent, more important, and/or more rewarding) to do than put on a wetsuit, stand on a barely moving board, and hold up a sail. Planing on flat water isn't a lot better past the first 20 minutes ... FAR less time than it took to dress, rig, unrig, and undress. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

totally with you GT.

if there is a wind promise for some time in the straps and harness - I rig the biggest sail on the biggest board. Some shlogging comes as unavoidable part in this package deal.

if there is a promise for the breeze only, I rig 4.5 on the same biggest board

and ISO if I am already standing on the water edge there is nothing better or more fun or more urgent for me than to rig and change and go, thats my story Smile


Last edited by alap on Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2769

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alap wrote:
and ISO if I am already standing on the water edge there is nothing better or more fun or more urgent for me than to rig and change and go, thats my story Smile


No, that is a better story.

Coachg
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19252

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
that is a better story.
Coachg

"Better"? So now we're judging personal preferences?
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