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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2769

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
coachg wrote:
that is a better story.
Coachg

"Better"? So now we're judging personal preferences?


Yes we are. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Laughing

Coachg
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People living in areas of frequent high wind will have different preferences, which they should keep out of threads about lighter wind sailing.
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
isobars wrote:
coachg wrote:
that is a better story.
Coachg

"Better"? So now we're judging personal preferences?


Yes we are. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Laughing

Coachg


ISO, are we talking about the choice? The Choice? I thought you are the biggest proponent of THE CHOICE, aren't you?

and the humans have a very nasty habit - when they can choose they typically (like 100%) are choosing what they think is better for them.

why are you so jumpy and confrontational? nobody used the word "judgement" and nobody said a bad word about your preference not to deal with light wind at all. But other people choose differently. And they do so because it is better - yes better - in their view.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19253

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but this IS the short response ... drafted last weekend on only the second day of 6.2 or better wind since August.

grantmac017 wrote:
Far less personal and far more situational.
If the OP lived in the Gorge he'd own totally different gear, he'd also not need to learn to pump efficiently.

But that isn't the case. He sails in metro Vancouver BC. A place known for extremely reliable, but light, conditions. He also choses to focus his efforts on the warm thermal season rather than cold frontal. So his situation demands a completely different set of equipment and skills.

People living in areas of frequent high wind will have different preferences, which they should keep out of threads about lighter wind sailing.


Sorry, but I took my last orders 30 years ago, from a colonel (and even then saved some major programs and others’ careers by opposing his orders at risk to my own career). I now get to use my own judgement, more freely and at less personal risk.

Besides, we had only one day throughout Sept and Oct that blew hard enough long enough within 180 miles for my biggest sail, a 6.2 (chosen by handling considerations, not wind histograms). The Gorge isn’t magic. It’s hype based on some exceptional seasons over the decades and a few outstanding days every year.

YOU discussed fanning to get planing, but I can’t discuss it? Is it any wonder that I get touchy enough to defend myself maybe one percent of the times it’s warranted, in the hopes that some of the ad hominem will stop as more people will condemn it and chastise people trying to make almost every GD thread I enter about me rather than the topic?

Even when mamero DID subsequently clarify that his issue was cam rotation vs RAF rotation, he didn’t confine it to big sails or light air. Furthermore, you then said the position was the same whether trying to plane or trying to rotate the foil. Mamero said the guy who sold him the sail said to emphasize back hand [as in fanning] to rotate the foil.

Bottom line: it’s OK for you to offer the same suggestions I did, but because I get stronger winds some days of the year, I have no right to offer mine? It would REALLY enhance your communications if you’d post a smiley face after your jokes.

Maybe the most broadly relevant comment I made here (and often elsewhere) is the importance of defining “better” when discussing ANY gear, technique, venue (or car, food, or wine). The word is useless without situational definition based on personal preferences, yet most OPs refuse to list their criteria and some actually get bent out of shape just by the request. Until it becomes clear to him and us what mamero’s prioritized goals are for this sail, neither he nor we can identify a clear path to them. If his priority is the earliest planing possible, he needs to look way beyond square meters and cheap prices and on to boards, fins, techniques, rigging, and more.

After coachg wrote:
that is a better story,

I, after seeing countless opinions expressed as fact over the years, wrote:
Better"? So now we're judging personal preferences?

Coachg wrote:
Yes we are. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Laughing

Thank you for clarifying your statement as a beholder’s opinion rather than a broad statement of fact.

alap wrote:
ISO, are we talking about the choice? The Choice? I thought you are the biggest proponent of THE CHOICE, aren't you?
and the humans have a very nasty habit - when they can choose they typically (like 100%) are choosing what they think is better for them.


Always have been and probably always will be an outspoken proponent of choice, a major driver in almost everything I do. That’s why I challenged Coach’s initial apparently universal pronouncement and would have challenged yours if you hadn’t added the all-important “for them”. MANY of our arguments over gear and techniques become heated solely because so many insist their CHOICES are binding on everyone. “For them” is neither evident nor implied by the incessant My Way or the Highway edicts their authors try to impose on gullible readers.

alap also wrote:
1. Why are you so jumpy and confrontational?
2. nobody said a bad word about your preference not to deal with light wind at all


1. Who wouldn’t be jumpy after getting hit with thousands of baseless personal attacks and false attributions plus hundreds of outright libelous attacks? (Tip: I ain’t the biblical Job. Classic contemporary example: I’m not even as even-tempered as Judge Kavanaugh, whose rape accuser, a rabid left wing agitator, formally confessed that her accusation was false.) This ubiquitous and disgusting “Attack any messenger whose message differs from ours” behavior has turned me along with millions of Americans against fabricated ad hominem at both the local and national levels. How is responding, usually much less snarkily, “confrontational”? i.e., Who's doing the confronting?

Just one example: Coachg and I got along pretty well (e.g., he admitted that my most controversial technique worked for him, too) until I posted research findings that he said contradicted some of his exercise physiology teachings. His subsequent switch to frequent personal criticism may have been merely a coincidence, but what are the odds of that?

2. I’ve been criticized… in person, online, and even on bumper stickers unsubtly denigrating my personal launching choices … dozens of times for choosing my own sailing conditions. Ditto freestyle, ditto racing, ditto many proven techniques I prefer, ditto board choices, ditto refusing orders to F with GoPros, ad nauseum. An independent journalist studied and polled the forum and reached and published his similar finding, the origin of U2’s apropos “Mean Girls” moniker. A big-corporation group behavior consultant did the same with rec.windsurfing in the '90s.

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
the common practice with many, just sitting all day in the car park, talking a good day ... baffles me since it's not as though they have found anything better to be doing

That baffled me, too, for many years. Based on decades of observation, I’d estimate that well over 95% of WSers at any venue quit hours before the wind quits, often missing the best wind and swell of the day. I’ve sussed several common factors, including:
Some PREFER the social scene over WSing.
Some are just out of shape.
Some PREFER to let surmountable inconveniences (or conventional wisdom, or peer pressure, or heavy-handed government) rule their days and lives.
Some are completely fulfilled by a little bit of sailing.
Some are infirm for whatever reason.
Some conserve energy for tomorrow, which of course never comes.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I said sitting in the car park talking a good day baffles me, I didn't mean I was unable to understand, (I see through it only to well), but that it was alien to my needs.

We change as we age, and a cancer scare (and op) a few years back, along with reaching 80 (81 now) meant that looking back at successes and failures more or less in equal measures, brought on the state of mind that every day now is an added bonus in defying societies expectations of what an oldie should be like, or do, or think. i.e. I let continuing furious activity override sense of purpose just because I,m still able to make it so, instead of just sitting on my arse and talking big.

It doesn't matter any more if it's just a light wind winter rainy dismal day, with a big clumsy board and a whopping sail, because the feeling of defiance and of cheating the usual odds is very real, and I can look forward to the following day, pounding up those killer hills and passes on the bike, again, regardless of the discomfort, because I still CAN!!

In short, Robert Marchand, that legendary French 105 year old cyclist who can never sit still for more than a minute or so, has made me realise, and aceept my own feelings. I thank him for that inspiration.
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Bendover



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars written

"Maybe the most broadly relevant comment I made here (and often elsewhere) is the importance of defining “better” when discussing ANY gear, technique, venue (or car, food, or wine). The word is useless without situational definition based on personal preferences, yet most OPs refuse to list their criteria and some actually get bent out of shape just by the request. 

I’ve been criticized… in … dozens of times for choosing my own sailing conditions.

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:the common practice with many, just sitting all day in the car park, talking a good day ... baffles me since it's not as though they have found anything better to be doing
That baffled me, too, for many years. Based on decades of observation, I’d estimate that well over 95% of WSers at any venue quit hours before the wind quits, often missing the *******best ********** wind and swell of the day. I’ve sussed several common factors, including: 
Some PREFER the social scene over WSing. 
Some are just out of shape. 
Some PREFER to let surmountable inconveniences (or conventional wisdom, or peer pressure, or heavy-handed government) rule their days and lives. 
Some are completely fulfilled by a little bit of sailing. 
Some are infirm for whatever reason. 
Some conserve energy for tomorrow, which of course never comes."



thankyou again over again for appear to contradicting your self and again again critisizing every ones "choice' to not sail in you're "best" conditions. .
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19253

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show us where I criticized anyone. Here, I simply made observations, explained as such and strongly supported by their own comments. You're trying too hard.

This particular "best" is almost unanimously acknowledged by virtually every frequent summertime sailor at my usual haunt due to the strongest, steadiest evening wind and biggest, cleanest swell that seem to favor midsummer thermally boosted days. Frontals, like most of this season? Total crap shoot with the odds against it.
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