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Let's Talk Cammed Sails
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19264

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in love with the seamless, effortless, silent, imperceptible power transition available even -- heck, especially -- in extremely quick transitions with the really good RAF/camless sails. I haven't sailed with a cam this century, so my impressions may be out of date, but there are many reasons I haven't sailed with a cam this century. The choice remains highly personal.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 830

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Far less personal and far more situational.
If the OP lived in the Gorge (or drove to Squamish, hint hint) he'd own totally different gear, he'd also not need to learn to pump efficiently.

But that isn't the case. He sails in metro Vancouver BC. A place known for extremely reliable, but light, conditions. He also choses to focus his efforts on the warm thermal season rather than cold frontal. So his situation demands a completely different set of equipment and skills.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1087
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have also gone back to some freerace sails
this is a Gaastra Swift with 2 cambers
SUPER smooth transitions !!
forget the poor technique !!

https://youtu.be/MQPDrWAes3M?t=2m40s

flip is at about 5m20
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19264

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
If the OP lived in the Gorge (or drove to Squamish, hint hint) he'd own totally different gear, he'd also not need to learn to pump efficiently.

But that isn't the case. He sails in metro Vancouver BC. A place known for extremely reliable, but light, conditions. He also choses to focus his efforts on the warm thermal season rather than cold frontal. So his situation demands a completely different set of equipment and skills.

Everyone conveniently forgets 1) the decades I paid my dues in interior lakes and 2) the fact that the ratio of Gorge winds under vs over 20 mph is probably 5 or 10 to one. An 8.0 would snag WAY more TOW than a 5.0 even in the summer.


Last edited by isobars on Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally sailed the 8.6 NX a few days ago. The wind was very light; much lighter than forecast. I was hoping to get a feel for it planing but there was not enough wind even for an 8.6. Mostly slogging. However, the fact I was able to get out at all is a good sign I guess. 8.6=more TOW.

The sail seems to be rotating easier now. I've removed all the shims except the top one, more practice rigging, and have adjusted my technique to use more back hand when popping the sail. It's hard to tell after one session of slogging whether the 8.6 and Futura 114 are a good match. The Futura 114 can go up to a 9.0 so I'm possibly pushing the limits here. Time will tell. Now... will I get another 8.6 session this season or must I wait till next year...
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19264

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mamero wrote:
there was not enough wind even for an 8.6. Mostly slogging. However, the fact I was able to get out at all is a good sign I guess. 8.6=more TOW..

Ahhh ... but you could have gotten the same TOW with a 4.0 with much less effort, and practiced your light air freestyle as a bonus. I've seen experts do that here on Gos or Starts in 5 mph breezes.
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet you eventually will buy 140+ litres / 80+ cm wide board for that sail. Shloging with 8.6 is not fun at all. If the board says "up to 9.0" it means that a pro can do it if needed.

Whether you will buy a dedicated boom, mast and extension, so you can have two sails with two matching boards rigged side by side, or will master the AO tie in /tie out in 10 seconds, that I don't know. BTW I personally have two harness lines on my dedicated 8.5 boom - the longer ones are for shlogging, the shorter ones - for sailing (both are adjustable of course, but I adjust only once, set and forget it). Shlogging comfortable with long lines is much better.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slogging off the plane with large twin cam sails, satisfying as it can be on a longboard, especially beating upwind on the centreboard, is usually seen as a right pain on short 'fat' boards.

I've recently picked up a second hand 2011 J.P. v 127 litre freerace type board 249 x 74 with 46 pointy fin, (to make some effort to keep in touch with this century), and after an initial try out in light winds it has got me grabbing for my older large twin cammed racing sails.

It makes an interesting comparison with my large Bic Techno freeride board (160 litres 255x82 48 Select ride fin) which has always worked better with an 8 metre non cam sail. The Bic struggles to point upwind off the plane and has always needed to be used with care in offshore light wind conditions, but this J.P. is far superior in this respect, and easily makes ground upwind in non planing slogging conditions. (Big lull, and two kiters down in water unable to fly kites.)

The J.P. at just 127 litres is remarkable buoyant and stable at my weight, and I'm itching to slap my 8.6 twin cam Prodigy racing sail on it for fast planing speed. I'm told it should really light the board up! (Agree about long harness lines -32 and kite seat harness.)

I'm a believer in variety with 16 boards currently at hand (and more stashed amid the rafters) but this new board has sparked that zest we all felt when just starting out. Who needs silly expensive foils? Efficient twin cams will always have their place!
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ss59



Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really get the schlogging (sic.) thing, for me windsurfing is a planning sport. There is either enough wind to get going or not(*); if there is enough wind rig to plane. However, if there is not, rig something smaller than 5.5 and go practice those crucial light wind skills(**).

at an intermediate level, cams, adjustable outhauls, carbon booms, expensive fins, huge sails, multiple very similar boards, particular sail brands etc. etc are just distractions and actually make progressing much harder. There really is no mysterious bit of kit that will make progress in windsurfing easier


* with the exception of float and ride wavesailing, maybe
** not schlogging - but learning to sail faster, off the plane, is a core component to early planning skills
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course planing is the point ss59, but wind, or lack of it, dictates what size of sail is necessary to meet that need. Those of us who long since learnt do not WANT to pratt about and practice 'crucial' light wind skills on a small sail,which wouldn't transfer across to large cammed sails anyway! We payed our learning dues long ago in the 80's, so what you suggest makes little sense. Our skills come into play when already out on large cammed sails but the wind chooses just to ease down, and we have cope with handling the large rig. (Been there done it far to frequently!)

Cams, adjustable outhauls, carbon booms, expensive fins, and huge sails (8.6 is not nowadays considered to be huge), are a part of the windsurfing skills for intermediates for those who wish to progress and plane in lighter winds. I fail to see your logic that they should avoid such a distraction, because it won't make windsurfing easier (not meant to - but will advance an intermediates skill level) and insist instead that they should play about with a small sail when you rightly claim that windsurfing is a planing sport.

I don't understand why anyone should think that an intermediate today should be unable to master such large sails? (We all managed to when large sails were nowhere near so good.) Unless, of course, they don't WANT to be seen trying to plane on lighter wind days (short board radical image, and all that guff) but that's a different matter which helped to almost kill windsurfing not so long ago. But thankfully, better and bigger cammed sails and more suitable boards have addressed the issue, and many of us can usefully employ our hard earned light wind skills!
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