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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9136

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty, I worked my whole career at a private company that was an undisputed leader in our industry. Most of our work was funded either directly or indirectly by the US government. Would the kind of R&D and innovation we were doing simply spring out of the woodwork of Wall Street venture capitalists angling for profit and a quick return? No, because what we were doing wasn't something that anyone could buy at Walmart or Home Depot.

Let me give you one easily understood example that makes my point. Would we have gone to the moon if the government didn't provide the vision, leadership and funding to make it a reality? Do you have any idea how the technologies developed during 60s for the space program have blossomed and resulted in many things we take for granted today?

Sometimes it isn't government funding that makes things happen. It's undisputed that government regulations can be the key to innovation and development. The perfect example is automobile emissions regulations that have vastly improved our air quality and at the same time elevated performance characteristics in our vehicles. Would the car companies have done the work to get where we are today without mandatory government regulations? Not a chance.

I could go on and on with excellent examples that prove my basic points, but at this point even you should be able to grasp what I'm talking about. Just think about how much money and natural resources could be saved in the future if Donald Trump reversed his decision to virtually kill the fuel efficiency standards enacted by President Obama. Just think about the new high quality jobs that could be created into the future realizing higher fuel efficiency standards. Why turn our back on the future and try to hide in the past that Trump wants to cripple us with?
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4804

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
mat-ty, I worked my whole career at a private company that was an undisputed leader in our industry. Most of our work was funded either directly or indirectly by the US government. Would the kind of R&D and innovation we were doing simply spring out of the woodwork of Wall Street venture capitalists angling for profit and a quick return? No, because what we were doing wasn't something that anyone could buy at Walmart or Home Depot.

Let me give you one easily understood example that makes my point. Would we have gone to the moon if the government didn't provide the vision, leadership and funding to make it a reality? Do you have any idea how the technologies developed during 60s for the space program have blossomed and resulted in many things we take for granted today?

Sometimes it isn't government funding that makes things happen. It's undisputed that government regulations can be the key to innovation and development. The perfect example is automobile emissions regulations that have vastly improved our air quality and at the same time elevated performance characteristics in our vehicles. Would the car companies have done the work to get where we are today without mandatory government regulations? Not a chance.

I could go on and on with excellent examples that prove my basic points, but at this point even you should be able to grasp what I'm talking about. Just think about how much money and natural resources could be saved in the future if Donald Trump reversed his decision to virtually kill the fuel efficiency standards enacted by President Obama. Just think about the new high quality jobs that could be created into the future realizing higher fuel efficiency standards. Why turn our back on the future and try to hide in the past that Trump wants to cripple us with?


Funny you would mention the space program considering that it's private companies and competition that are the future of space travel. Yes the goverment plays a vital roll in pushing new areas that the private sector is not willing to risk big money on R and D, I agree with that, but it's freedom, less goverment, and competition that made America the richest country in the history of mankind.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 3119

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Gallup

Quote:
In our comparison over 78 countries, the USA comes 9th with an average income of 58,270 USD. The average income is calculated by gross national income and population. On dividing all annual incomes and profits by the amount of the countrie's population, it will show the average income per capita.


I depends on how you count wealth Matty. The US is not the highest average income country. It does have a lot of wealthy people.

When you consider some other factors. Like access to health care, care for aging and educational test scores, we don't do all that well on the world stage.

There is a lot that we can do better on and, sadly, this is not something that private corporations have any reasons to engage unless there is a profit.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9136

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Funny you would mention the space program considering that it's private companies and competition that are the future of space travel."


And that is great news, because there's a future in space, and often there is no reason that the government should do the financial lifting.

Like I said, I worked at a private company, and in my job, I spread a lot of business to private companies all over the country, and even to foreign companies. It's really about buying from the best. I will say this though, buying high technology products from foreign countries is a bitch with respect to government regulations. Maybe, that gives American companies an advantage in the competition for excellence as we move into the future.

What I'd like to see out of Donald Trump is a government initiative, that is funded by the government, challenging American companies to do something big. Not some BS wall on our southern border, but an idea that puts America on the fast track for the future. And that would mean being at the head of the pack globally too. But, let's not limit playing field to just one initiative. How about at least five?

What can Trump really do to keep America on top?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5144
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
"Funny you would mention the space program considering that it's private companies and competition that are the future of space travel."


And that is great news, because there's a future in space, and often there is no reason that the government should do the financial lifting.

Like I said, I worked at a private company, and in my job, I spread a lot of business to private companies all over the country, and even to foreign companies. It's really about buying from the best. I will say this though, buying high technology products from foreign countries is a bitch with respect to government regulations. Maybe, that gives American companies an advantage in the competition for excellence as we move into the future.

What I'd like to see out of Donald Trump is a government initiative, that is funded by the government, challenging American companies to do something big. Not some BS wall on our southern border, but an idea that puts America on the fast track for the future. And that would mean being at the head of the pack globally too. But, let's not limit playing field to just one initiative. How about at least five?

What can Trump really do to keep America on top?

Those are called subsidies, subsidies are funded by us, the government's money is us, you should know that. I've always been against subsidies for anything, including ALL sectors of energy production, whether it's renewables or that evil big oil. Free market capitalism is where the most rapid inventiveness occurs, the desire to be the first with something new is what drives profits.
There are no subsidies in the cell phone market, which is a great example, just look at how quickly cell phones have evolved.
And as an answer for your last question ~ he just needs to stay out of the way, no subsidies.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 344

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
swchandler wrote:
"Funny you would mention the space program considering that it's private companies and competition that are the future of space travel."


And that is great news, because there's a future in space, and often there is no reason that the government should do the financial lifting.

Like I said, I worked at a private company, and in my job, I spread a lot of business to private companies all over the country, and even to foreign companies. It's really about buying from the best. I will say this though, buying high technology products from foreign countries is a bitch with respect to government regulations. Maybe, that gives American companies an advantage in the competition for excellence as we move into the future.

What I'd like to see out of Donald Trump is a government initiative, that is funded by the government, challenging American companies to do something big. Not some BS wall on our southern border, but an idea that puts America on the fast track for the future. And that would mean being at the head of the pack globally too. But, let's not limit playing field to just one initiative. How about at least five?

What can Trump really do to keep America on top?

Those are called subsidies, subsidies are funded by us, the government's money is us, you should know that. I've always been against subsidies for anything, including ALL sectors of energy production, whether it's renewables or that evil big oil. Free market capitalism is where the most rapid inventiveness occurs, the desire to be the first with something new is what drives profits.
There are no subsidies in the cell phone market, which is a great example, just look at how quickly cell phones have evolved.
And as an answer for your last question ~ he just needs to stay out of the way, no subsidies.


"AT&T uses federal subsidies to offer expensive, slow broadband"

https://www.tellusventure.com/blog/att-uses-federal-subsidies-to-offer-expensive-slow-broadband/
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9136

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW30, where did I mention subsidies? You're just making stuff up, and it is pretty obvious that you've totally missed the picture. What I was talking about is the government issuing competitive contracts where the companies winning the business would be responsible for producing a product or an outcome. To assume that private businesses would do the R&D and build massive projects on their own is a pipe dream.

Like mat-ty, it seems that you don't have the background to understand the level of innovation and sophistication it takes to do ground breaking work that often doesn't always yield a profit. Think back to the example that I raised earlier about going to into space and ultimately to the moon in the 60s. Just try to imagine how many different American companies were contracted to push the envelope and develop the new ideas and products needed to support such a massive series of projects. There was no one company, or group of private venture capitalists, that could have pulled it off like the US Government could.

Lastly, even though the government is the principal funding source for the project as a whole, you have to keep in mind that the companies contracted have to have the facilities and personnel to fulfill their contractual obligations. So that is where investors and risk takers come in. You can't win the business unless you've got the foundation and reputation to compete and perform. There are no handouts or subsidies involved.
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 7768

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still like beer
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