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Asylum
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12031
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Asylum Reply with quote

When faced with Democrats that oppose Trump's autocracy, or his racist targeting of immigrants of color, the new wave of conservatives rant about open borders. I haven't heard any Democrats argue in support of open borders, but I have heard many argue in favor of the rule of law. NW and his fellow traverlers have disparaged those seeking asylum as "illegal immigrants." But the law is clear.

From the decision by Judge Tigar:

Quote:
Congress has clearly commanded in the INA that any alien who arrives in the United States, irrespective of that alien’s status, may apply for asylum – “whether or not at a designated port of arrival.” 8 U.S.C.
§ 1158(a)(1).
...
The rule barring asylum for immigrants who enter the country outside a port of entry irreconcilably conflicts with the INA and the expressed intent of Congress. Whatever the scope of the President’s authority, he may not rewrite the immigration laws to impose a condition that Congress has expressly forbidden. Defendants’ claims that the rule can somehow be harmonized with the INA are not persuasive.


You can read more of the reasoning, but this is from the decision.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5194180/11-19-18-East-Bay-Sanctuary-Order.pdf
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5535
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do get it right, you keep fucking up.

mac: "NW and his fellow traverlers have disparaged those seeking asylum as "illegal immigrants." "

They only become illegal AFTER they SNEAK into our country, not before.

And it's not like we're trying to be the world champs at border security, that belongs to somebody else, and they can have it.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12031
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Completely unclear on the facts. Those who cross without permission may still seek asylum. Notwithstanding Trump's extra-legal efforts to stop them.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5535
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Completely unclear on the facts. Those who cross without permission may still seek asylum.
As illegals, but that doesn't mean they'll get it,,,,,,,, that's called clarity.
You keep changing things and mentally meander about to suit your own discussion.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3346

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac said:
Quote:
Completely unclear on the facts. Those who cross without permission may still seek asylum.

And there in lies the problem - and as you stated, Trump wanting to change the law.

Now that it's clear to all that want to cross and cross illegally, just claim asylum and hope to be let loose in the US until their case can be heard, some years down the road. It's nuts!!! So Trump is trying to keep anyone from crossing illegally, which makes complete sense. If one crosses illegally, and can't claim asylum, that should help with managing the whole process.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12031
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
mac said:
Quote:
Completely unclear on the facts. Those who cross without permission may still seek asylum.

And there in lies the problem - and as you stated, Trump wanting to change the law.

Now that it's clear to all that want to cross and cross illegally, just claim asylum and hope to be let loose in the US until their case can be heard, some years down the road. It's nuts!!! So Trump is trying to keep anyone from crossing illegally, which makes complete sense. If one crosses illegally, and can't claim asylum, that should help with managing the whole process.


Ahh, I have no trouble with Trump trying to change the law. That would require working with Congress rather than issuing Executive Orders that are so badly drafted that they are overturned. Working with Congress wouild almost surely mean opening a path to citizenship for those who have been here a long time, and Trump's hard right immigration guy, Steven Miller, won't go there.

Even Fox news reports that 83% of the public support a pathway to citizenship. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-83-percent-support-pathway-to-citizenship-for-illegal-immigrants

I would support that, and addtional staffing to check the legitimacy of claims to asylum. That is hardly an open border.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3346

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac,

If congress could change the law in the next month so that only those crossing the border legally could claim asylum, would you support that?

It seems to me that now that the "cat is out of the bag", any of the 11 million illegals in the US, if caught and detained by ICE could now claim asylum, potentially creating an impossible backlog.

If all illegals are granted a path to citizenship in the future, what will that mean to those considering entering illegally and how will that impact future border security?

While "the wall" may not be the definitive answer, nevertheless, coming up with someway to absolutely control our borders seems like an important goal.

While liberals may not like Trump's methods or solutions, at least he has the balls to try and solve the problem. All other presidents have done little or nothing to address the problem. One of the main reasons Trump got elected.


Last edited by techno900 on Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 6911
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno...c'mon man, you're smarter than that. If Trump had "balls", he'd craft a comprehensive plan, and get it through Congress and fix this mess. Instead he's spending hundreds of millions making it worse. I know it riles up the natives, and that seems to be his modus operandi , but its not a solution to anything and it's not going to deter someone who is fleeing a horrible situation....
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12031
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno—I told you what I would support—a comprehensive immigration reform passed through Congress and signed by the President. Something like the bill that passed the Senate, and would have passed the House if allowed to go to the floor, but Tea-baggers and cowardly Republican leadership held up.

I’m well aware that you are a hard opponent of immigration, and far less rabid than many. But Trump doesn’t have balls—eyewitnesses say otherwise. He just has contempt for law and legal process. I repeat, the prosecute them all sentiment that Sessions embodied and that seemed to attract you is not only wildly expensive—it is broadly opposed.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 5578

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
techno...c'mon man, you're smarter than that. If Trump had "balls", he'd craft a comprehensive plan, and get it through Congress and fix this mess. Instead he's spending hundreds of millions making it worse. I know it riles up the natives, and that seems to be his modus operandi , but its not a solution to anything and it's not going to deter someone who is fleeing a horrible situation....



Fleeing a horrible situation??? so you walk through two countries to get to the US?? It's not Asylum ala carte

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


They are not asylum seekers, they want to live in America and are willing to chance life and limb because of the ridiculous message America sends them.......mostly because of liberals and spineless republicans...Thank god we finally have a President with a backbone...
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