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Tendon or mechanical for foiling?
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4562
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the flat bay...Coyote and Berkeley at the end of an 11 mile fetch, backwash from the lee shore, same 5 meter wind..and the good sailiors having little troubles at Lake Arenal, Gorge, Waddell, or Backyards.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1047

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Ah, the luxury of attaching the rig and the board in the water in the SF Bay, or a lake somewhere, without ocean waves and rocks making things a bit challenging, especially at high tide.

With a foil, I'm thinking that the mechanical universal is the way to go

But you can make your life miserable: just go to Coyote at high tide in a windy day and you will not be too happy coming out of the water! Shocked Shocked Shocked



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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9470

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to ask, are you both going to be foiling in very rough and windy conditions? Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been under the impression that foiling is the call for getting the most out of very light borderline conditions.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4562
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High tide, N wind at Coyote or S wind at Berkeley, in 7-14 mph breeze, has windwaves and backwash just like pictured.
Low tide, the breeze often does not fill in, so higher tide sailing is more reliable for steadier breeze.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1047

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
I have to ask, are you both going to be foiling in very rough and windy conditions? Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been under the impression that foiling is the call for getting the most out of very light borderline conditions.

No way ... Foiling for me will be limited to no wind conditions. I will go out only when there is absolutely no wind (maybe I'll take a paddle). Too scary otherwise! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Kidding aside: the idea is indeed for the Foil to take the place of my Isonic 111: very light air for my weight. This season I will use:

3.7-5.4 Starboard FSW 81
5.4-6.5 RRD FSW 90
4.7-6.5 Flikka Foil

I might get a Flikka 90 shaped like a Severne Fox 95 instead of the RRD for speed runs, or I might find out that I only need the Starboard + Flikka, and it might be that I still need my Switchblade 7.3 for ultra-light wind. We'll see.



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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9470

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to ask, are the Carbon Arts, iSonics and Patrik boards out? Also, how is your sail quiver changing given the foil? No more race sails and trick slalom fins?
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4562
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have an Isonic 111 with 7.7, 7.4, 7.0, and 6.9.
At 170 lbs, use same size sails as most foilers, plane up about the same as foilers 20 lbs. lighter, do NOT glide thru lulls as well, but go easily 5 mph faster, and of course, plane thru jibes 70% of the time. Lose out big time in up and down angles, but need only 18" of water instead 40".
I have the Naish foil setup to use this year, which I used 3 times last year from March to Oct.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1047

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
I have to ask, are the Carbon Arts, iSonics and Patrik boards out? Also, how is your sail quiver changing given the foil? No more race sails and trick slalom fins?


The Patrik 100 is long gone, it took the place of an equally unloved Carbon Art 58. What I do love is my Carbon Art 52 that I still have, and I might get a mid-size slalom oriented board, 60-62 wide max but with V and deep double concave to a help in the bay area Big Chop. Slalom-ish might not be out yet!

My sail quiver left cams behind a couple of years ago. I bought Point-7 cam less ACX (5.8 and 6.5) and they turned out to be actually faster than my HSM GPS, very stable, and incomparably easier to handle. In the right hands they could easily win the Crissy Series in high winds. The only cambered sail I have left is a Switchblade 7.3. Wonderful sail.

Changes: very minor. Point-7 is sending me a 2019 5.4 (and 6.5) on warranty (they are great guys). My quiver will hopefully just be 4.3-4.7-5.4 and 6.5. Four sails, two masts, 10 to 25 knots of wind.

dlee: we had this conversation before. At my weight the Isonic 111 + 7.3 covers a lot of light air. What it does not cover is what I used to be able to do with my Mikes Lab Course Race (260x78)+ 8.0 and this is what I hope the foil will get back. But there are unknown. The range? and yes, there is the learning. With my slalom gear I never miss a jibe, with the foil it might take years to re-learn Shocked

Speed: I am not sure a foil is 5 knots slower. Check this link out https://www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=115314&sid=7a35e0111936087d280d2373d08e2a1b And by what metric? I rarely went above 28 knots max with my Isonic vs the 30-35 knots max speed of the CA 52. I just don't have the body to go overpowered with it. The best 10" speeds on the Is-111 are at least 2-3 knots slower, 500 meters drop and additional 4-6 knots. From what I read 24-26 knots average over long distance are very feasible on a fast foil (not on a Naish or Slingshot!). But sure, give me a smaller slalom and overpowered sail and I might be faster.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4562
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have less faith in the speeds of foils.
Had some Cal Cup winners try to sail with me on their smaller foils, not their Course foils, and while speeds were almost close...they dropped in from above and in front, me on freeride board and sail, they'd crash or drop 20 yards back by 1/2 mile of reaching. Might be 1.5 mph diff, and that's advanced foilers against me, a 69 year old freerider.
But I am giving the Naish setup a try, knowing the top end limit is around 21 mph.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 771
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tendon or mechanical for foiling?

If you want easy attachment of rig to board while out in chest deep water... or, to adjust the mast-base fore or aft while out in the middle... mechanical.
(Save your muscles for more windsurfing instead.)

There is no big down-side to mechanical (especially for foiling). According to manufacturers, they last as long or longer than hour-glass or tendon. They've been used in windsurfing since the 80's.

The only down-side I've heard, is there is less "impact or vibration" absorption (which makes sense to me). So I wouldn't use them on very fragile slalom or formula boards while racing across choppy water. Or when doing lots of jumps. Cause you might get some deck damage eventually, since they don't have built-in flex like the other 2 have. (Although I use them on my formula board.)
Anyway, this won't be a factor for most people who are windfoiling… since it's all about being "smooth".

_________________
Greg
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84
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