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National Debt
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12835
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: National Debt Reply with quote

Hits $22 trillion. Crickets from the stooges, who were hysterical about it when a black man was President. Any idea why?
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 8499

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: National Debt Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Hits $22 trillion. Crickets from the stooges, who were hysterical about it when a black man was President. Any idea why?


Yeah. Because Trump would have to shut the government down for a year to get the Democrats to cut spending.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3460

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play with the chart on this site and look at the debt trends by President:

https://www.macrotrends.net/2023/national-debt-by-president

Click on each President to see his charted trend.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12835
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--my father used to say, there are liars, damned liars, and statisticians. See if you can tell me how your web site has spun the data to minimize the magnitude of the Trump deficits. It took me a minute. Here's a hint, the raw data:

Year Deficit (in billions)
2008 459
2009 1413
2010 1294
2011 1300
2012 1087
2013 679
2014 485
2015 438
2016 585
2017 665
2018 837
2019 984
2020 987
2021 916

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

If one accepts the basics of Keynesian economics--which both parties did while Bush was still president and the economy was hemorrhaging jobs--then deficit spending is warranted to prevent market collapse. Even if one doesn't accept Keynesian economics, the trend over Obama's term was down after the initial stimulus. In contrast, Trump and the Republican tax cuts have created a much larger structural deficit. While initially it gave the economy a sugar high, it has translated much more into higher profits and stock buy-backs for corporations and the very rich, and wage stagnation continues.

Spin.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5846
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry but a progressive like yourself, starting a thread on the national debt, has a red glow of hypocrisy surrounding it.
Progressives don't care about the national debt, they care more about the New Green Deal, which has money growing on trees.
You can take your costume off, Halloween was months ago.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 819

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Sorry but a progressive like yourself, starting a thread on the national debt, has a red glow of hypocrisy surrounding it.
Progressives don't care about the national debt, they care more about the New Green Deal, which has money growing on trees.
You can take your costume off, Halloween was months ago.


More binary thinking disproved:

Today, the Center for American Progress and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities held a forum, “Progressives and the National Debt: Consequences and Solutions.” Panelists included Alan Blinder, Laura Tyson, Roger Altman, Paul Krugman, Robert Reischauer, Senator Mark Warner, David Cutler, and William Gale, among others. Although the event labeled the panels as “progressives,” the discussions reflected notable ideological differences among the speakers.

While deficit reduction is often seen as a centrist or even conservative position, conference panelists highlighted the importance of the issue for progressives. Speakers emphasized that progressives need to recognize the threat the federal debt poses to progressive priorities.

Overall, the majority of panelists agreed that the United States faces a very real and serious fiscal crisis, and if we fail to act to bring down future deficits once the economy recovers, our creditors will force the necessary changes on us. CRFB has argued this exact point many times, and thus called for the adoption of a fiscal consolidation plan. Several panelists even explicitly cited the need for the United States to “pre-commit” to a fiscal reduction program.

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/progressives-and-national-debt
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7367
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so far we have Bard, NW, and Matty on record saying debts and deficits don't matter.... Let me tell you guys something, it will certainly matter in the future...
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12835
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Sorry but a progressive like yourself, starting a thread on the national debt, has a red glow of hypocrisy surrounding it.
Progressives don't care about the national debt, they care more about the New Green Deal, which has money growing on trees.
You can take your costume off, Halloween was months ago.


The profound ignorance and hypocrisy at work in the narrow minds of “conservatives” is on display. NW is inventing a position for me that is at odds with what I have said. But we already know he doesn’t read for understanding.

At its most basic level, deficit spending increases the cost of borrowing and increases inflationary pressure. No individual or corporation is as good a credit risk as the Federal government—so all have to pay higher interest rates. That is obscured in deflationary times—which the crash of 2008 most certainly was.

Keynesian theory advocates deficit spending during severe market contractions, and paying down the debt when markets are strong. Republicans advocate deficit spending for their campaign contributors—and lying about it.

Virtually every President of the past 50 years has except Clinton has run deficits. Obviously, Congress—both parties—has been complicit in this. The result has been inflation—essentially an invisible tax against future generations. Bard has advocated that, showing that the greediest generation has taken over from the greatest generation.

Congratulations NW. You never cease to amaze me with the crazy shit you make up.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3460

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When liberal Presidents run up the debt, not much is heard. When conservative Presidents run up the debt, it's big news.

Bottom line, probably more for the right that the left - STOP over spending. The crap will hit the wall at some point and it will be a huge issue. Taxes should go up, but spending must go down.


Headlines all over the place: U.S. National Debt Hits Record $22 Trillion.

Shocking - there's a new record every year. The media really needs to get a life.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3460

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When liberal Presidents run up the debt, not much is heard. When conservative Presidents run up the debt, it's big news.

Bottom line, probably more for the right that the left - STOP over spending. The crap will hit the wall at some point and it will be a huge issue. Taxes should go up, but spending must go down.


Headlines all over the place: U.S. National Debt Hits Record $22 Trillion.

Shocking - there's a new record every year. The media really needs to get a life.
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